doug ronan removed as director from copa

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dstechnical
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doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by dstechnical »

DOUG RONAN (southern ont. COPA diector) has been forcibly removed as a director from COPA and had his membership revoked. All this has been engineered by the president of COPA without any input from the membership who elected him, unlike the president kevin psutka who is an employee of the association (a very well paid one at $200k/yr). It seems mr ronan had a private conversation, (not represnting copa) about the situation at toronto island, . Mr. Psutka took exception to this, he even said he would not go the AGM (another very expensive meeting for copa that may have to looked at)if Mr Ronan attended. Mr. Ronan has taken issue with copa donating $25k of our money to what seems to be a needless fight over GA usage at the toronto Island airport. (he is not the only copa member who does not agree with this). As far as I know no one has plans to ban GA from the island, there seems to be an issue with wanting to pay for hanger usage.

Mr. Ronan has be railroaded out of COPA. All members should stand up and fight for out democratic rights a members. I for one would like to know why this has been done in secret. If the board was so sure of its position than it should have went to the membership. COPA has been in ottawa for too long. WE do not expect our board to be trained seals and do whatever Psutka tells them, but too do what the membership wants
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crazy_aviator
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Re: DOUG RONAN REMOVED AS DIRECTOR FROM COPA

Post by crazy_aviator »

If $200,000 a year is a correct figure, im going to broach this subject with COPA the next time i renew, and if i dont receive an answer/discount, im NOT going to renew!! Tell me more about other wastes and dictatorship going on in my club.

PS: Im sure Doug Ronan has come a long way from the "Ron (snake oil salesman) Newberg club" and I would stand behind him if i see no fault on his part, even though we have not always seen eye to eye in the past :wink:
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single_swine_herder
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Re: DOUG RONAN REMOVED AS DIRECTOR FROM COPA

Post by single_swine_herder »

... and my contact with Mr. Psutka has always been exceptional professional and well thought through.
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2R
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Re: DOUG RONAN REMOVED AS DIRECTOR FROM COPA

Post by 2R »

COPA sat on its hands when TC impossed user fees for medicals,and when TC stopped sending out the AIP updates we were still paying the fees to Ottawa for service we not getting.User fees for a service no longer provided.

mr.putz should be proud of his useless orginization.
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Post by Beefitarian »

This is going to be bad. Even in real life most people are probably never going to know the full truth.

There will be two sides and possibly both will have right and wrong components.

It looks like a dark time ahead for COPA. I hope the membership can move forward in a significantly positive manner.

I believe it is more difficult to operate organizations like these than ever before.
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EA757
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Re: DOUG RONAN REMOVED AS DIRECTOR FROM COPA

Post by EA757 »

dstechnical,

Are you absolutely certain of all of your facts here?

I mean first hand knowledge
and not just rumours.

This is extremely serious if it is as you have presented.
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CD
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Re: DOUG RONAN REMOVED AS DIRECTOR FROM COPA

Post by CD »

2R wrote:COPA sat on its hands when TC impossed user fees for medicals,and when TC stopped sending out the AIP updates we were still paying the fees to Ottawa for service we not getting.User fees for a service no longer provided.
That isn't entirely accurate ... additional information posted here:

AvCanada: Page 9, post 200
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AirFrame
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by AirFrame »

COPA website currently lists under the Executive Committee:
Paul Hayes, Chair of COPA, Southern Ontario

And under the Elected Directors:
Philip Englishman, Southern Ontario Director

If the change was to the Executive Committee, I expect that is something the directors *can* do without member input, but i'm not 100% sure on that. If the change was to one of the Elected Directors, then I agree, something strange is going on.

Of course, finding out what's really going on isn't likely to happen until we hear "from the other side" as it were.
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by PilotDAR »

My choice to stop supporting COPA was made more than a decade ago, for reasons entirely I witnessed first hand, and without influence from anyone else. However, my reasons for choosing to no longer support COPA fall centrally into the theme of:
COPA sat on its hands when TC imposed.....
Several major regulatory changes, which were presented at TC meetings which I attended, and so did a COPA rep, went through with no COPA publication, or call for COPA membership resistance. COPA members were NOT well represented in those few occasions.

I did COPA the courtesy of specifically and personally describing my dissatisfaction to Directors and the President before I quit. One Director took seriously my concerns. It sounds like he will no longer carry them upward in the COPA system from the inside.... Shame....
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2R
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by 2R »

Thank you CD for your post.
I had forgotten about the rubber chicken hotels conferences where the opposition to any TC input was assesed, before we were all bent over and spanked with user fees.If only the pilots had someone who would could put forward an arguement that would have prevented user fees for a service that is no longer provided.
AOPA successfully stopped the FAA when they attempted to pull the same stunt down south.
You can buy the FAR/AIM at most FBOs for less than twenty bucks.
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Last edited by 2R on Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ReserveTank
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by ReserveTank »

$200,000/yr? I can't believe that there's enough membership in Canada to support this kind of salary. After all, you guys must know that COPA is a very bad knock off of AOPA, a real organization that has gone to bat for GA. COPA has done nothing of substance for GA. They're just collecting your money and providing absolutely no representation. Sure there's a forum to gripe about landing fees. You can do that for free. Stop giving these people your cash.
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Sidebar
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by Sidebar »

2R wrote:You can buy the FAR/AIM at most FBOs for less than twenty bucks.
You can read the CARs and TC AIM for free online, or download them for offline reference.

CARs: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... s/menu.htm
AIM: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/p ... u-3092.htm
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DougRonan
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by DougRonan »

These are the facts ​as they happened from my seat ​- I have absolutely been criticizing the staff and the board about some serious problems that have arisen from decisions made regarding the new insurance program and the situation at the Toronto City Center Airport. All of which was basically ignored by the staff and most of the Board. After repeatedly - on behalf of the members - bringing my opinions up to the board and giving them 13 pages of clarification and detail on my opinions (at their request) - the Board's response was to vote on requesting that I resign. The vote came back asking me to resign by about 2/3 of the Board - to which I declined. Before which time I renewed my membership online which was to expire on June 30/2013. The day that I declined to resign I received an email - from COPA head office in Ottawa - refunding my membership that I had paid online. That night I received an email from the Chairman saying that because I declined to resign - my membership will not be renewed and any monies I had paid for renewal will be refunded. So even though the members of COPA voted me in for a second term of 4 years that goes until June 30, 2014 - if I'm not a member I can't be a director???

BTW - I don't have any idea who "dstechnical" that started this thread - I would be very curious to know where he got this information from??

Doug Ronan
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by Colonel Sanders »

the members of COPA voted me in for a second term of 4 years that goes until June 30, 2014 - I can't be a director???
Doug: where I come from, we called that "dirty pool":
Definition of DIRTY POOL: underhanded or unsportsmanlike conduct
I can understand you being upset, but try to move
on. Being disliked by COPA is perhaps a bit like being
disliked by David Suzuki. Not something worth losing
any sleep about. Go flying. Spend time with your kids.
Play frisbee with your dog.

The other response to this - and you need to carefully
examine your motives - is to point out to COPA members
that apparently their regional directors are not actually
elected IAW the bylaws of the organization, and only
serve at the pleasure of the current President.

Personally, I would go play frisbee with the dog. The
dog will really appreciate the time you spend together,
and you will spend time with someone of better character.
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twinpratts
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by twinpratts »

meh... :roll:
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EA757
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by EA757 »

Doug Ronan,

Thanks very much for clarifying the situation
first hand.

I was very concerned that it may have just
been a nasty rumour going around. I could not
have hoped for a better response.

Thank you and good luck.
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photofly
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by photofly »

It's impossible to run an organization where one board member is rogue and running in a different direction to the rest; resigning is the correct thing to do.

Even if the rest of the board is wrong, incompetent, stupid and evil then it's the responsibility of the membership to fix it, not a lone board member. If a single board member can't abide by - and assume collective responsibility with - joint decisions then he or she should resign their post.

That goes for any organisation, not just COPA.
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by PilotDAR »

Photofly,

I see wisdom in your post. I had not thought of it that way (from my offside position anyway), but upon consideration, and your well selected language, I see the point.

I chose some time ago to not count myself among the COPA membership, because collectively COPA was ineffective. Perhaps this was because of very persuasive leadership in COPA prevailing over the small collective voice of the members. In any case, opportunities for regulatory development participation were lost, and to this day, aircraft owners can be needlessly and deeply burdened as a result.

COPA members, it is your association - you will get the leadership that you vote for, or fail to vote out! Back in the day, I voted them all (and myself) out, by withholding my membership.
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cap41
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by cap41 »

I love how COPA, hides behind an email, THey have to deliver bad news via email. No respect to pick up a phone and have a conversation. I'm new to aviation, but, to me that is the chicken S*&^ way of doing business.
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Re: doug ronan removed as director from copa

Post by Colonel Sanders »

To avoid disappointment, don't expect much from COPA.

Try spending time doing this instead. It will make you
feel much better:

Image
If a single board member can't abide by - and assume collective responsibility with - joint decisions then he or she should resign their post.
That's certainly the path of least resistance, but
I'm not sure Sir Thomas More would entirely agree
with your pragmatic philosophy wrt dissenting opinions :wink:
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