COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

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photofly
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by photofly »

Given the bylaws have a procedure for removing a membership which requires a meeting of members, it's not ok to do an end-run around that by simply waiting for the membership in question to be up for renewal and then refuse to renew it. That would frustrate the clear intent of the bylaws.

As to whether it was the chairman or Psutka: the chairman assured the membership that it was a board decision, and nothing to do with Psutka.
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floatplaneflyer
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by floatplaneflyer »

The old Bylaws said the President had the right to approve a new membership. They said nothing about approving a renewal of an existing member.
2010 Bylaws (superseded by new, 2013 Bylaws)
3-A Eligibility
Any person who supports COPA's objectives may become a member upon acceptance of their application for membership by the President and CEO and payment of the required membership dues in accordance with section
3-C "member(s) in good standing"
shall mean any member whose membership payment has been verified by COPA staff or by electronic transfer. A member remains in good standing until the end of the month in which his or her membership expires. Members who renew their membership prior to expiry shall commence their renewed membership term from their current date of expiry. Members who renew their membership after the end of the month in which their membership expires shall commence their renewed term from the date their membership payment is received by COPA;

The current Bylaws approved at the Annual General Membership meeting on June 22, 2013 say that a new member is "accepted into membership by resolution of the Board or in such other manner as may be determined by the Board". Once a person has been accepted as a member the only way his membership may be involuntarily terminated is by way of a Special Resolution of the Members.
The Board Chairman claims the President did not have anything to do with terminating Doug Ronan's membership. The instructions to the staff to return Ronan's membership fee was supposedly given by the Board. The fact that there is no provision in the Bylaws to refuse a dues payment does not seem to have occurred to the Directors or do they appear to care that they have exposed COPA to possible legal action from Ronan and from any member that wants to challenge their actions as illegal. There are many, many members, including several lawyers that are contemplating taking COPA to court.
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Schteevie
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by Schteevie »

have pulled ejection handle from this thread.

Image
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floatplaneflyer
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by floatplaneflyer »

I guess that means you don't care if COPA is run according to the Constitution and Bylaws approved by a majority of the members.
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by AirFrame »

Him, and the other 99% of the membership, apparently.
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pdw
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by pdw »

That must be the 'coolest' way to exit I've ever seen.

My Aunt's company used to run a course that would work with two competing forces in upper management of some larger organizations to discover a way to get along with each other. Sometimes that sort of help is needed, and can work wonders.

I used to be a member, and now actually feel like joining again now that I see some real wrangling is going on do do the right thing. Sure hope it's not blowing lots more money over petty arguements, which just produces that overwhelming urge to get out of the picture like this guy in the jet-suit.
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BGH
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by BGH »

I am under the impression with replies from Hayes & Psutka about the method used to remove Ronan that I am the only one that has bothered to write copa with my concerns.
The replies from them were with indifference,perhaps from Hayes to be almost annoyed that I bothered to ask him why he chose that method,suggesting perhaps that I should read his reply in the copa paper again.I told him I returned it unopened,I asked for a refund of the year remaining on my membership & was told that refunds can't be offered.Monday I pull the ejection handle on the whole copa boys club mentality.It's turned out to be a WOFTAM.

Regards;
Daryl
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by CpnCrunch »

Similar crap is happening at a large flying club in Southern Alberta (I just heard today), and also at a large flying club in BC. It seems that whenever you get a lot of pilots together, they just end up stabbing each other in the back.

All I want to do is fly a plane and maybe socialise with other pilots - I don't need all the political BS, personality clashes and backstabbing that seem to be prevalent in these organisations.
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by AirFrame »

Maybe the problem is "organization". Maybe we need to move from a hub-and-spoke style club, with HQ in Ontario and members in Flights, to just having members everywhere with no real centralized leadership. Just thinking out loud, no idea if it could work...
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photofly
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by photofly »

CpnCrunch wrote:
All I want to do is fly a plane and maybe socialise with other pilots - I don't need all the political BS, personality clashes and backstabbing that seem to be prevalent in these organisations.
I'm afraid once an organization decides it needs a bank account, it's all over. Doubly so if it has a spiffy logo and website too.
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photofly
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by photofly »

CpnCrunch wrote:All I want to do is fly a plane and maybe socialise with other pilots - I don't need all the political BS, personality clashes and backstabbing that seem to be prevalent in these organisations.
When an organization of pilots decides it needs a bank account, the writing is on the wall. Death is assured as soon as the website and spiffy logo are announced.
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floatplaneflyer
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by floatplaneflyer »

The only way an organization has any influence with legislators is to control a large number votes and contributions to their campaign fund. Small splinter "clubs" are just social groups that can't change anything except their meeting date.
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by PilotDAR »

has any influence with legislators
And, they would have to use the influence they have.

I am a first hand witness to several occasions where COPA utterly failed even an attempt at influencing regulatory change. In the case of the new (at the time) regulation of noise for propeller driven aircraft, COPA was present in the Transport Canada meeting where this was rolled out. I asked the COPA representative at that meeting with me to express objection on behalf of Canadian owners - nothing. I wrote a letter of objection, and TC told me that it was the only one they received. So now, if you want a propeller change approved, there could be a cost (possibly exceeding the cost of the prop) to demonstrate noise compliance. I have to assume that COPA thinks this is acceptable to members, I do not.

The issue of fixed wing external loads was similarly not defended for the owners and operators by COPA. For these, and other reasons, COPA and I went our separate ways long ago. I will not support an organization, who will not support me as a member on important issues like these.

TC has told me from time to time that they would welcome representations from "alphabet groups" on regulatory initiatives. I think to myself; "gee, who can we get to do that.....?".
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CpnCrunch
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by CpnCrunch »

PilotDAR wrote:I wrote a letter of objection, and TC told me that it was the only one they received.
Pilots can't really complain when new laws are introduced if they can't be bothered to get off their lazy asses to write a letter (or email it). How much effort does that take?

I wrote a letter to TC in 2008 explaining very nicely and logically why their cost-benefit analysis for the proposed 406 ELT regulation was utter BS. This is one issue that COPA has in fact spent a lot of effort lobbying for, and so far it seems to have paid off because there is no regulation on the horizon.
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Re: COPA Board BREAKS THE LAW

Post by AirFrame »

PilotDAR wrote:I asked the COPA representative at that meeting with me to express objection on behalf of Canadian owners - nothing.
One person at the meeting asks him to raise an objection... And how is that representative of the members? I agree that the policy is a little retarded and there should have been some more questions asked... But to ask a director to stick his neck out on his own initiative on an issue may be asking a bit much. Look how well that worked out for Doug Ronan. :)

On the other hand: COPA has participated enough to prevent Banff and Jasper from being closed, they supported one of my local airports during a push by neighbours and the local regional district to close it, and they have fought tirelessly to prevent 121.5 ELT's from being obsoleted without better alternatives being made available. They have not been entirely succesful in that last one, but I think they weren't insignificant in seeing that the rules allowed 121.5 owners to continue using them rather than forcing a costly upgrade to technology that is at best a marginal improvement in functionality.
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