New questions for the aviation regulations wizards.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Theoretical questions to those, especially instructors and examiners, who know these regulations well. See the related Regulations and Standards below.

According the the CARs and Standards as they are now written:

1) could it theoretically be possible for a Canadian Private Pilot Licence holder with single engine only rating only and no instrument rating, and who met all the conditions listed in 421.34 below, to write the SAMRA, the SARON and the INRAT and do one Instrument flight test (according to Schedule 8, also below) in order to obtain a Canadian ATPL without ever having first been tested for, or possessed a Commercial licence or ever been tested for, or possessed in a Multi-Engine Airplane rating?

IF "YES" to the above, and based on the fact that Schedule 8 (below) which describes the requirements of the Instrument flight test (the only test required of an ATPL applicant), and which specifies in Paragraph 2. (d) that said test could be made in a Level A simulator:

2) Could it not be theoretically possible that this same applicant do his Instrument Flight Test in a level A simulator, and thus end up holding a Canadian ATPL without having ever flown a real twin engine aircraft in flight ?

3) Could this not even be true for the holder of just a Student Pilot Licence ? Go from a Student Pilot straight to an ATPL without doing any of the written or pratical tests of the PPL or the Commercial, or the Multi Engine flight test ?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

DIVISION VIII - AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT LICENCE
421.34 Aeroplanes - Requirements

(1) Age

An applicant shall be a minimum of twenty-one years of age.

(2) Medical Fitness
(amended 2007/12/30; >previous version)

(a) An applicant shall hold a Category 1 Medical Certificate valid for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane.

(b) The licence holder may exercise Private Pilot Licence - Aeroplane privileges until the end of the medical period specified for the Private Pilot Licence.
(amended 2007/12/30; >previous version)

(c) The licence is maintained by a valid Category 1 Medical Certificate.
(amended 2007/12/30; >previous version)

(3) Knowledge

An applicant shall have obtained a minimum of 70% in each of three written examinations on the following aviation subjects:

(a) Airline Transport Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) Meteorology, Radio Aids to Navigation and Flight Planning (SAMRA) including:

(i) general system of weather collection and dissemination,

(ii) weather map, weather forecast, weather abbreviations, symbols and nomenclature,

(iii) pressure systems and their association with fronts, cloud forms and icing conditions,

(iv) the movement of upper winds and their effect on aircraft operations,

(v) weather service circulars and instructions for air route meteorological service which are pertinent to aircraft operations, and

(vi) radio communication procedures relating to aircraft operation; and

(b) Airline Transport Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) Air Law, Aeroplane Operation and Navigation General (SARON) including:

(i) basic principles of air navigation such as formulae, instruments and other navigational aids which are commonly used in the navigation of aircraft,

(ii) basic principles of loading and weight distribution and their effect on flight characteristics,

(iii) Canadian Aviation Regulations, Air Traffic Rules and Procedures, Information Circulars and NOTAM, and

(iv) human factors, including pilot decision-making; and

(c) Instrument Rating (INRAT).

(4) Experience

An applicant shall have met the training requirements for the issue of a Commercial Pilot Licence - Aeroplane that is not restricted to daylight flying and completed a minimum of 1500 hours total flight time of which a minimum of 900 hours shall have been completed in aeroplanes. The total flight time shall include a minimum of:
(amended 2000/09/01; >previous version)

(a) 250 hours pilot-in-command flight time in aeroplanes which shall include where applicable, a maximum of 100 hours pilot-in-command under supervision flight time completed in accordance with Section 421.11. The pilot-in-command and/or pilot-in-command under supervision flight time shall include a minimum of 100 hours cross-country flight time of which a minimum of 25 hours shall have been by night;

(b) 100 hours night flight time as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot of which a minimum of 30 hours shall have been acquired in aeroplanes;

(c) 100 additional hours cross-country flight time as pilot-in-command or 200 hours as co-pilot or any combination thereof, with flight time calculated in accordance with section 421.10. Flight time as pilot-in-command may be part of the 250 hours pilot-in-command flight time specified in paragraph (a); and
(amended 2005/12/01; >previous version)

(d) 75 hours instrument flight time of which a maximum of 25 hours may have been acquired in approved instrument ground trainers and a maximum of 35 hours may have been acquired in helicopters. Instrument ground time shall not be applied toward the total 1500 hour flight time requirement.

(5) Skill

(a) Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in a multi-engined aeroplane with no central thrust configuration and fitted with instruments and equipment suitable for IFR flight in controlled airspace, familiarity with and the ability:
(amended 1999/03/01; >previous version)

(i) to perform both normal and emergency flight procedures and manoeuvres appropriate to the aeroplane in which the flight test is conducted; and

(ii) to execute all manoeuvres and procedures set forth in Division XIV for issue of a Group 1 instrument rating.

(b) For issue of the Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane, the Minister shall only endorse a Group 1 Instrument Rating on the licence.
(amended 2005/06/01; >previous version)

(6) Credits - Experience

(a) Glider

Where an applicant holds a Pilot Licence - Glider, a maximum of 50 hours flight time in gliders shall be credited towards the total 1500 hour flight time requirement.

(b) Three Axis Ultra-light Aeroplanes

Where an applicant holds a Pilot Permit - Ultra-light Aeroplane, a Recreational Pilot Permit – Aeroplane, a Private Pilot Licence – Aeroplane or a Commercial Pilot Licence – Aeroplane, a maximum of 50 hours flight time in three axis ultra-light aeroplanes shall be credited towards the total 1500 hour flight time requirement.
(amended 2005/06/01; >previous version)

(7) Credits for DND Applicants

Active and retired Canadian Forces personnel who hold a Canadian Forces Instrument Rating (unrestricted) in a multi-engined aeroplane (Group 1) shall be deemed to have met the skill requirement.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Schedule 8 - Flight Test for the Issuance or Renewal of an Instrument Rating
1. Prerequisites for the Flight Test

(a) Before conducting a flight test for the issuance of an instrument rating, the examiner shall receive the following documentation:

(i) a pilot licence or permit with a medical certificate,

(ii) proof that the candidate meets the requirements of section 421.14 of Standard 421 — Flight Crew Permits, Licences and Ratings, and

(iii) a letter signed by a qualified person who meets the requirements of subsection 425.21(9) of Standard 425 — Flight Training, certifying that the candidate has the training and experience required and has reached a sufficient level of competence to undertake the Instrument Rating flight test.

(b) Before conducting a flight test for the renewal of an instrument rating, the examiner shall receive the following documentation:

(i) a pilot licence or permit with a medical certificate, and

(ii) proof that the candidate meets the requirements of section 421.49 of Standard 421 — Flight Crew Permits, Licences and Ratings.

(c) Before conducting a partial re-test following failure of a flight test for the issuance of an instrument rating, the examiner shall receive the following documentation:

(i) a copy of the Flight Test Report for the previously failed flight test, and

(ii) the documentation listed in subsection (1)(a).

(d) Before conducting a partial re-test following failure of a flight test for the renewal of an instrument rating, the examiner shall receive the following documentation:

(i) a copy of the Flight Test Report for the previously failed flight test, and

(ii) a letter signed by a qualified person who meets the requirements of subsection 425.21(9) of Standard 425 — Flight Training certifying that the candidate has undergone additional training and is considered competent to undertake the flight test.

2. Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Flight Test

(a) The candidate shall provide:

(i) an aircraft that meets the requirements of subsections 425.23(1), (2) and (7) of Standard 425 — Flight Training, and

(ii) current enroute, terminal and approach charts for the area where the flight test is to occur and a current Canada Flight Supplement.

(b) When the aircraft used is a helicopter, it does not need to be equipped with a stability augmentation system if the flight test is conducted in VMC conditions.

(c) If the examiner occupies the observer’s seat, it shall:

(i) be equipped with a safety harness installed in accordance with the Airworthiness Standards,

(ii) be located to permit an unobstructed view of the aircraft instruments, radios and navigation equipment, and

(iii) be equipped to monitor intercom and air to ground and air to air radio communications.

(d) The flight test may be conducted in a Level A or higher flight simulator or a synthetic flight training device approved for instrument rating flight test in accordance with TP 9685 - Aeroplane and Rotorcraft Simulator Manual.

(e) The candidate shall provide an effective means of excluding outside visual reference to simulate instrument flight conditions, while maintaining a safe level of visibility for the examiner or safety pilot.

3. Conduct of the Flight Test

(a) When conducting a flight test, the examiner shall:

(i) require the candidate to fly the aircraft from a position where the pilot-in-command functions can be performed and, except where the aircraft operation has a two-crew requirement, carry out the test as if there is no other crew member,

(ii) stop the flight test when unsafe airmanship or dangerous flying is displayed, including failure to use proper and effective visual scanning techniques to clear the area before and while performing visual manoeuvres,

(iii) refrain from training or demonstrating proper technique during a flight test.

(b) The examiner shall take no part in the operation of the aircraft except:

(i) as required for the purpose of testing certain prescribed exercises,

(ii) to perform the duties of a safety pilot while the candidate is donning and wearing a view-limiting device unless another qualified safety pilot is performing the duties of a non-flying pilot in the case of an aircraft requiring two crew members, or

(iii) where intervention is necessary in the interest of safety or to avoid unacceptable delay to other traffic.

(c) The examiner shall ensure that suitable air traffic services and facilities are sufficient to complete the flight test, including two different approaches.

4. Flight Test Performance

(a) The examiner shall evaluate the candidate's knowledge and skills to:

(i) perform the required exercises in accordance with the performance criteria prescribed for the Instrument Rating,

(ii) complete all manoeuvres with smoothness and accuracy,

(iii) demonstrate sound judgement and good airmanship,

(iv) correctly apply aeronautical knowledge, and

(v) demonstrate mastery of the aircraft at all times in such a manner that the successful outcome of a procedure or manoeuvre is never seriously in doubt.

(b) Consideration shall be given to unavoidable deviations from the published criteria due to weather, traffic or other situations beyond the reasonable control of the candidate.

(c) Allowing for deviations due to turbulent conditions and the handling qualities and performance of the aeroplane or helicopter used, the following general performance tolerances apply:

Altitude

Normal flight
Approach: minimum IFR altitudes associated with the intermediate and final segments
(e.g.; FAF, beacon crossing or step-down fixes)
Accurate altitude control required at MDA

±100 feet
+as required/-0 feet



Heading

Normal flight

±10°

Airspeed

Take-off and approach (aeroplane)
Take-off and approach (helicopter)
Normal flight

+10/-5 knots
±10 knots
±10 knots

Tracking

VOR/LOC/LOC BC/ILS/RNAV
NDB

½ scale deflection
±5°

5. Content of the Flight Test for the Issuance or Renewal of an Instrument Rating


Section 1 – Pre-Flight Operations

a Flight planning

b IFR Operational knowledge

c Preparation for Flight

d Air Traffic Control clearances


Section 2 - Terminal and Enroute

a Departure

b Enroute

c Arrival

d Holding


Section 3 - Approaches and Landing

a Non-precision approach

b Precision approach

c Missed approach

d Transition to Landing


Section 4 - Abnormal and Emergency Procedures

a Engine failure (multi-engine)

b Systems Malfunctions

c Emergency Procedures

[200Above]

hey what happened to the girl??? or was that spam?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/si ... 0778677754

As I was saying, this girl always pops up in the upper right hand corner of my screen when I post on AvCanada and I find it very distracting.....

[LousyFisherman]

Lucky guys! I got an ad for rig mats and the centerfold was a forklift

So is this true? I could get my ATPL? Then, how do I get the C150 type rating put on? Same way I do on a CPL?
If I did all that, would I be allowed to put on cool pilot sunglasses and look like this?


Seriously though, ATPL is a pretty good addition to the bucket list

YMMV
LF

[Diadem]

You've got it right there in 421.34(5)(a):

(5) Skill

(a) Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in a multi-engined aeroplane with no central thrust configuration and fitted with instruments and equipment suitable for IFR flight in controlled airspace, familiarity with and the ability:
(amended 1999/03/01; >previous version)

It doesn't matter how you did your IFR ride, you still have to have a ride in an actual airplane before you can get your ATPL. It would seem that this applies to commercial pilots who renewed their PPCs in a sim as well, but it often goes overlooked. Either way, the legal requirement is a ride in an actual airplane.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

You've got it right there in 421.34(5)(a):

(5) Skill

(a) Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in a multi-engined aeroplane with no central thrust configuration and fitted with instruments and equipment suitable for IFR flight in controlled airspace, familiarity with and the ability:
(amended 1999/03/01; >previous version)

It doesn't matter how you did your IFR ride, you still have to have a ride in an actual airplane before you can get your ATPL. It would seem that this applies to commercial pilots who renewed their PPCs in a sim as well, but it often goes overlooked. Either way, the legal requirement is a ride in an actual airplane.

I agree, and that is also the interpretation I had myself of the Regulations. But it also says in Schedule 8 :

2. Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Flight Test

(a) The candidate shall provide:

(i) an aircraft that meets the requirements of subsections 425.23(1), (2) and (7) of Standard 425 — Flight Training

(d) The flight test may be conducted in a Level A or higher flight simulator or a synthetic flight training device approved for instrument rating flight test in accordance with TP 9685 - Aeroplane and Rotorcraft Simulator Manual.

Some people interpret this to mean that the Instrument flight test, done for the purpose of issuing an ATPL can be done in a Simulator and not in a real aircraft.

[Big Pistons Forever]

A friend of mine went straight from PPL to ATPL. He amassed all the required experience flying around in his own Mooney, did a multi rating and enough dual to get a recommend for a Group 1 initial ride, which he did in a light twin, and then applied for his ATPL which was granted.

As for the Sim vs airplane requirement, the appendices provided additional information and recommended practices but do not supersede an actual regulation. CAR 421.34(5)(a) is very specific and unambiguous. One of the skills which is required for the issue of a ATPL is a flight test in an airplane within the preceding 12 months.

Now I think the rule is rather silly but it is clear.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

For the ATPL test it says in 421.34

(5) Skill

(a) Within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence, an applicant shall demonstrate in a multi-engined aeroplane with no central thrust configuration and fitted with instruments and equipment suitable for IFR flight in controlled airspace, familiarity with and the ability:
(amended 1999/03/01; >previous version)

(i) to perform both normal and emergency flight procedures and manoeuvres appropriate to the aeroplane in which the flight test is conducted; and

(ii) to execute all manoeuvres and procedures set forth in Division XIV for issue of a Group 1 instrument rating.

(b) For issue of the Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane, the Minister shall only endorse a Group 1 Instrument Rating on the licence.
(amended 2005/06/01; >previous version)

For the Instrument rating, it says in 421.46:

(c) Skill

(i) Subject to paragraph (ii), an applicant shall successfully complete:
(amended 2012/02/19; >previous version)

(A) a flight test as pilot-in-command of an aeroplane or helicopter, in accordance with Schedule 8 “Flight Test for the Issuance or Renewal of an Instrument Rating” of Standard 428 — Conduct of Flight Tests, or
(amended 2012/02/19; >previous version)

(B) a Pilot Proficiency Check (PPC) for operations under IFR in accordance with Part VI or Part VII , as applicable.
(amended 2012/02/19; >previous version)

(ii) An applicant who successfully completes a Line Operational Evaluation (LOE) from an approved Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) is deemed to have met the requirement of clause (B).
(amended 2012/02/19; >previous version)

I think that what is meant here, is that if the Instrument ride is done for the sole purpose of obtaining an Instrument rating, the ride may be done in a simulator, but if it is to qualify the applicant for an ATPL, it must have been done in a real aircraft.

Comments ?

[Big Pistons Forever]

I think that what is meant here, is that if the Instrument ride is done for the sole purpose of obtaining an Instrument rating, the ride may be done in a simulator, but if it is meant to obtain an ATPL it must have been done in a real aircraft.

Comments ?

I agree with that interpretation.