fired if found to perform fraud?

[waverider]

Always wondered , can a pilot be fired from their position whether it's a corporate, regional or mainline carrier if their employer found out they were found guilty of fraud in a court of law in Canada?

I personally don't think so , but interested to hear from others if anything like this happend to their airline and how the employer dealt with the pilot.

thanks

waverider

[North Shore]

OK, what did you do??

Might cause you problems if you need to be bonded, or perhaps if you need a passport or RAIC, and I'd (if I were in a hiring position) have a good hard think about hiring someone with a fraud conviction (after all, it shows you can't be trusted..)

[Big Pistons Forever]

If you concealed the fraud conviction when you were hired I would expect that alone would be grounds for dismissal. If the fraud conviction occurred after you were hired than I guess your overall performance with the company would factor into a decision on whether to retain you.

In any case I see a fraud conviction as massively deleterious to your flying career. But the good news is you would have clearly demonstrated you are management material.

[Shiny Side Up]

In any case I see a fraud conviction as massively deleterious to your flying career.

Suprisingly enough (or not) it doesn't seem to be much of a hinderance to a lot of people. Just like crashing airplanes isn't.

[ScudRunner]

In any case I see a fraud conviction as massively deleterious to your flying career.

Suprisingly enough (or not) it doesn't seem to be much of a hinderance to a lot of people. Just like crashing airplanes isn't.

He's got upper management written all over him

Now to be half assed serious.

This should all be covered in your employment agreement.

If you concealed it on your employment application = Yes

If you where forthright about your past and they still hired you in full knowledge = No but ask an employment lawyer not Avcanada

If you used company property or equipment (cell phone) to commit said fraud = yes, They need to cover their ass or they could be implicated, don't bother spending money on a lawyer to fight the firing maybe the fraud definitely call a Saul Goodman.

Where you convicted of fraud or just canned for padding your log book hour and got caught? and/or then they wanted a reason to can you because you where a douche bag? however you said convicted so never mind this sentence.

If you had a ponzi scheme on the side and nothing to do with your employer go talk to a lawyer but I assume your already there if that is the case. If your the type to commit such an offense then you might be better off not making anyone dig up more information on you and move onto that career in ditch digging.

That is just my expert armchair Avcanada non legally based opinion.

[oldtimer]

If normal company operations means you have to enter the USA and because of a criminal conviction you are inadmissable to the USA, then I believe the company has the right to say "Hit the Road" because you are unable to perform the duties you were hired for. Only hope is a pardon acceptable to foreign governments.

[CpnCrunch]

Quite a lot of companies don't bother doing criminal record checks on their employees. However I would like to think that if you're employing a pilot you would do a check.

PS, for any employers in BC: the BC government has very helpfully put the database of criminal convictions online for anyone to search for free. As long as you know the full name and date of birth of a person, you can instantly see if they have any criminal convictions. It might be worth finding out if your prospective pilot has a string of DUIs before hiring him.

[RatherBeFlying]

It depends on the circumstances. Most Canadian employers do not ask for criminal convictions on the application as employment law generally does not permit that.

Employers where employee theft can be a problem will require employees to be bonded; the fidelity bond company will likely require a Criminal Record Check.

So if you were not asked about your criminal record during hiring and performed satisfactorily and honestly for a significant period before your conviction became known, the company would be vulnerable to an expensive wrongful dismissal lawsuit if they fired you. That said, if money, supplies etc. have gone missing, there's a bullseye on your back whether it was you or some other unknown person.

Get a pardon when you can. If you enter the US before you get a pardon and your record shows up on the computer, it will stay in the US system forever.

Remember that if you apply for a Nexus card, the US will ask you for all offenses, whether pardoned or not.

Never lie to a US official -- it's a federal crime.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Any pilot who gets a criminal record loses his/her RAIC. Then the employer can tell him/her : "No RAIC, no job". It's been done.

[Gorgons]

Very surprised that many on here seem to believe that a company needs some sort of legal reason to throw your ass off their property and tell you to seek employment elsewhere. Fact of the matter is unless you have some type of union protection an employer can do whatever they want. Being fired without cause happens everyday in Canada.

Wait for it.... wait ..... wait.... I'll sue them!

To which the employer says "go right ahead".

By now half the guys on here are googling legal president, guess what your going to find? No windfalls of cash, no retirement type payouts. Courts and arbitrators stick pretty close to the statutory payment requirements of the CLC. So unless you have been in a companies employ for a great many years its just going to be a few weeks pay at best and your still on the other side of the door.

Smart companies typically offer without cause cases more than the statutory amount, when the employee runs to the labour board crying they have been wrongfully dismissed they pretty much get a shoulder shrug, the company has done more than they legally have to, I think you will find the courts are hard pressed to render decisions that over rule or go beyond the CLC.

[DaveP]

Hi,
This is a pretty open ended question without knowing the context.
Generally there are corporate policies in place to protect companies against fraud. Union shop or not, fraud (especially if it has safety concerns attached to it) will always find you going down the road "with cause".
No arbitrator will ever stand behind something that has a safety concern attached to it. Such as falsifying qualifications or background when it could be demonstrated by a company that you were hired with a certain "expected skill set or background" and are now or have been in control of a machine that is used by the traveling public.

[Wilbur]

If you commit fraud against your employer, you have likely caused irreparable harm to the employment relationship and you will be legally toast. If the fraud was in some other aspect of your life but committed while employed by your current employer, it will depend on the context. Can the employer and your co-workers still trust you? Might you do something similar to them? Does keeping you as an employee damage the employer's reputation? Did you do something like rip off a charity or vulnerable person? What was the magnitude of the fraud? A few hundred dollars or tens of thousands?

If it is a pre-existing conviction, you can not denied employment or be fired unless the offence is directly related to your employment (VSS, ability to enter US, etc as a legitimate job requirement). Canadian law prohibits discrimination on the basis of a criminal record. Employers can not even ask if you have a criminal record unless there is a legitimate job requirement.

[Heliian]

Hell ya you're fired.

Why would anyone keep you employed?

[Illya Kuryakin]

An annual criminal record check might be a requirement of some of your customers. Pretty sure most medevac ops require one.
Illya

[Sulako]

Nobody is guaranteed a job for life. Unless you have a collective agreement that says otherwise, you can be dismissed at any time, as long as your employer gives you either proper notice or pay in lieu of notice. The sticking point is that most employers usually don't wanna give pay in lieu.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Nobody is guaranteed a job for life. Unless you have a collective agreement that says otherwise, you can be dismissed at any time, as long as your employer gives you either proper notice or pay in lieu of notice. The sticking point is that most employers usually don't wanna give pay in lieu.

Another sticking point might be, the cost to train your replacement. Maintain a good relationship with your employer, and most will be willing to ride out some down times with you.
Illya

[prospector]

PS, for any employers in BC: the BC government has very helpfully put the database of criminal convictions online for anyone to search for free. As long as you know the full name and date of birth of a person, you can instantly see if they have any criminal convictions. It might be worth finding out if your prospective pilot has a string of DUIs before hiring him.

Dunno where you got that but its actually illegal to publicly disclose someone else's criminal history in this country. I doubt the BC government is doing that.

[boogs82]

PS, for any employers in BC: the BC government has very helpfully put the database of criminal convictions online for anyone to search for free. As long as you know the full name and date of birth of a person, you can instantly see if they have any criminal convictions. It might be worth finding out if your prospective pilot has a string of DUIs before hiring him.

Dunno where you got that but its actually illegal to publicly disclose someone else's criminal history in this country. I doubt the BC government is doing that.

They don't disclose criminal history. They have a website with court appearances from the first to the conclusion of the case. The courts are public record and all of the information from them is public record. So you can search a name, see when they've gone through court, get the disposition, and figure out pretty much everything about them that way.

[planett]

It'd be nice to know this same info about your potential employer, that way you would know what kind of ride you're in for.