How much air travel is out there right now?

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GhostRider6
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How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by GhostRider6 »

How much air travel is occurring right now? How much domestic vs overseas?

From the ATS perspective, has the government done a good job at discouraging Canadians from air travel?

What are working conditions like at ATC? It must be frightening to go to work.

I’ll be honest, from my viewpoint, is that all air travel should be ground stopped until the pandemic is over and the airspace should be closed to prevent COVID. Aviation is not essential. Period. The military could easily fill the void of what is required for humanitarian purposes during this pandemic.

For those in aviation, other means of income is available.
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short bus
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by short bus »

overreact much?
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skybluetrek
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by skybluetrek »

GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:26 pm How much air travel is occurring right now? How much domestic vs overseas?

From the ATS perspective, has the government done a good job at discouraging Canadians from air travel?

What are working conditions like at ATC? It must be frightening to go to work.

I’ll be honest, from my viewpoint, is that all air travel should be ground stopped until the pandemic is over and the airspace should be closed to prevent COVID. Aviation is not essential. Period. The military could easily fill the void of what is required for humanitarian purposes during this pandemic.

For those in aviation, other means of income is available.
Troll
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wordstwice
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by wordstwice »

Aviation is not essential?

How do you think the vaccines get shipped to Canada? How do you think vital and time sensitive mail and cargo gets here? How would people survive if all the thousands of medevac flights were grounded? How do people who live in remote communities get the essential services they require like food and Medecine?

Maybe think a little before you post such an ignorant comment.
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Braun
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by Braun »

Aviation is essential. Pilots are essential. ATC are essential.
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GhostRider6
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by GhostRider6 »

Braun wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:44 pm Aviation is essential. Pilots are essential. ATC are essential.


Hells bells, Aviation is a privilege not a right. ( breathing, eating and drinking is a right) .. is there any role the the Canadian Military could not fill in lieu on Commerical air travel? The virus would get under control as opposed to spreading it all over hell’s half acre.

This guy’s got it figured out :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk


Or what if ATC / the government specifically approved individual flights as opposed to Willy Nilly travel that is present now?

Either way, you guys would stay employed. How dangerous has it been to go to work ? ATC is required..

Pilots/ aviation workers can find other lines of work elsewhere quite easily.

How is air travel going from an ATC perspective?

The Honorable Minister Omar Alagabra and the Honorable Prime Minister Justin Trudeau almost ( and should have) done a full ground stop of all air travel in Canada similar to 9/11. Ever ask why? It’s dangerous! It’s spreading this killer bug.

Thankfully, Canadian carriers can’t fly to sun destinations..Sadly, it’s days late and about a million dollars short.
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short bus
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by short bus »

Yeah, thank god no canadian airlines are flying south. Everyone's taking an american carrier instead. Great plan!
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wordstwice
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by wordstwice »

The need to fill the gap with all the essential flights would far exceed the capabilities of the military. No disrespect to the military intended but it would takes hundreds of very specialized aircraft to fill all the essentials needs if your wish were to come true. Cargo aircraft, especially ones equipped for DG, medevac aircraft with the life support beds, etc etc.

Also, do you not realize that military flights are still operated by human beings who would still travel and possibly spread the virus? I’m not just talking about pilots but the enormous amount of ground crew and supplement air crew. Granted, this is still a smaller number than passengers planes but it wouldn’t stop the pandemic at this point.

I feel you are combining the leisure travel of people going to Cabo with the essential service that drives the economy and keeps many people safe (among other industries of course). You want to stop people from travelling to get a sun tan....fine, I can’t argue that. You want to stop all travel, close all airspace, and hope the military can fill the gaps? I fear that would result in far more hardship than this pandemic has created.

To answer your question there is no worries about going to work, extreme safety protocols have been put in place since last spring and continue to get stricter as this pandemic evolves.

I invite you to stop making blankets “cure-all” statements that would decimate an entire industry-an industry we will all need and benefit from coming out of this pandemic. Instead I ask you to decipher what parts of aviation you feel are contributing to the pandemic (backed up with empirical facts) and how that can be adjusted or put on hold to help us all.
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GhostRider6
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by GhostRider6 »

short bus wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:04 pm Yeah, thank god no canadian airlines are flying south. Everyone's taking an american carrier instead. Great plan!
Nor should they be! What America chooses to do is its business. Everyone will be vaccinated there by April by the looks of it. With that being said, people will need to Stay the F&&@ at home. Nobody knows if this vaccine is even effective for pray tell. Keep the restrictions.

Keep it going: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk

I’m anxious to go out with my risk factors.. going to the grocery store is scary with the lazy millennials walking around ... being elderly, obese and diabetic.. I wish people wouldn’t be out so much. The less movement the safer I am.

Blah blah blah conspiracy theories ! No US carriers are flying in. Even if they are,( which they aren’t) so what.. ? At least our carriers and government is doing the right. thing.
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GhostRider6
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by GhostRider6 »

wordstwice wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:12 pm The need to fill the gap with all the essential flights would far exceed the capabilities of the military. No disrespect to the military intended but it would takes hundreds of very specialized aircraft to fill all the essentials needs if your wish were to come true. Cargo aircraft, especially ones equipped for DG, medevac aircraft with the life support beds, etc etc.

Also, do you not realize that military flights are still operated by human beings who would still travel and possibly spread the virus? I’m not just talking about pilots but the enormous amount of ground crew and supplement air crew. Granted, this is still a smaller number than passengers planes but it wouldn’t stop the pandemic at this point.

I feel you are combining the leisure travel of people going to Cabo with the essential service that drives the economy and keeps many people safe (among other industries of course). You want to stop people from travelling to get a sun tan....fine, I can’t argue that. You want to stop all travel, close all airspace, and hope the military can fill the gaps? I fear that would result in far more hardship than this pandemic has created.

To answer your question there is no worries about going to work, extreme safety protocols have been put in place since last spring and continue to get stricter as this pandemic evolves.

I invite you to stop making blankets “cure-all” statements that would decimate an entire industry-an industry we will all need and benefit from coming out of this pandemic. Instead I ask you to decipher what parts of aviation you feel are contributing to the pandemic (backed up with empirical facts) and how that can be adjusted or put on hold to help us all.
Thanks for answering my questions...

I agree to disagree on the essential service piece. However, why not go with your approach and maintain present levels of service or lower then present as the market dictates. This is a free market economy... the government has dictated to Lockdown/ isolate snd stay home. Therefore, the need for aircraft / the industry to the level before is no longer required. The market can’t nor needs to sustain it. Let the previous levels of service collapse to present levels as the crisis unfolds and rebuild if and when needed.

Canada has been a leader in its support to the aviation industry.

And these lazy and selfish buggers can’t get a job somewhere else? janitorial duties, waste pickup, dog waking, house cleaning? Too good are they?

When there’s a will, there’s a way to survive! It’s not the taxpayers job to subsidize an industry that is failing due to sheer incompetence. These carriers should have scrimped and saved.

Also, ok, it’s an “ essential service” why are these companies pulling out of markets? Guess the airlines arent accountable to the people nor are they essential if they can unilaterally decide to cut service. ( assuming they have cut service in a meaningful way since the pandemic began)


There’s also CERB/ CEWS for the employees.

Either way, the ATC sector will be fine.
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Braun
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by Braun »

GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:49 pm
Braun wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:44 pm Aviation is essential. Pilots are essential. ATC are essential.


Hells bells, Aviation is a privilege not a right. ( breathing, eating and drinking is a right) .. is there any role the the Canadian Military could not fill in lieu on Commerical air travel? The virus would get under control as opposed to spreading it all over hell’s half acre.

This guy’s got it figured out :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk


Or what if ATC / the government specifically approved individual flights as opposed to Willy Nilly travel that is present now?

Either way, you guys would stay employed. How dangerous has it been to go to work ? ATC is required..

Pilots/ aviation workers can find other lines of work elsewhere quite easily.

How is air travel going from an ATC perspective?

The Honorable Minister Omar Alagabra and the Honorable Prime Minister Justin Trudeau almost ( and should have) done a full ground stop of all air travel in Canada similar to 9/11. Ever ask why? It’s dangerous! It’s spreading this killer bug.

Thankfully, Canadian carriers can’t fly to sun destinations..Sadly, it’s days late and about a million dollars short.
Sorry but this is mostly wrong. Air travel isn’t just vacationers. It is essential for so many reasons. How do you think the vaccines and other vital supplies arrive to Canada?

Also, saying the current government has been amazing at supporting the aviation sector is laughable.

The military doesn’t have the ressources to “fill the void” if all air travel is suspended.

Air travel stopped for a few days during 9/11. Not weeks/months.
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GhostRider6
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by GhostRider6 »

Braun wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:06 am
GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:49 pm
Braun wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:44 pm Aviation is essential. Pilots are essential. ATC are essential.


Hells bells, Aviation is a privilege not a right. ( breathing, eating and drinking is a right) .. is there any role the the Canadian Military could not fill in lieu on Commerical air travel? The virus would get under control as opposed to spreading it all over hell’s half acre.

This guy’s got it figured out :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk


Or what if ATC / the government specifically approved individual flights as opposed to Willy Nilly travel that is present now?

Either way, you guys would stay employed. How dangerous has it been to go to work ? ATC is required..

Pilots/ aviation workers can find other lines of work elsewhere quite easily.

How is air travel going from an ATC perspective?

The Honorable Minister Omar Alagabra and the Honorable Prime Minister Justin Trudeau almost ( and should have) done a full ground stop of all air travel in Canada similar to 9/11. Ever ask why? It’s dangerous! It’s spreading this killer bug.

Thankfully, Canadian carriers can’t fly to sun destinations..Sadly, it’s days late and about a million dollars short.
Sorry but this is mostly wrong. Air travel isn’t just vacationers. It is essential for so many reasons. How do you think the vaccines and other vital supplies arrive to Canada?

Also, saying the current government has been amazing at supporting the aviation sector is laughable.

The military doesn’t have the ressources to “fill the void” if all air travel is suspended.

Air travel stopped for a few days during 9/11. Not weeks/months.

Vaccines can arrive a number of ways boat/ sea can, rail, truck.

Canada is a world leader in that it has not supporting it’s sector and is allowing the industry to “ right size” for the new future. Canada can build back better and take this opportunity to change it’s economy.

If there is a future for passenger non-essential / essential travel foreign carriers can come in and Canada could have net zero emissions And zero virus transmission . Canada could rely on truck, sea and land travel and possibly rail and become a world leader.

Pilots and airline workers can show what they made of by find other jobs: garbage man, janitor, delivery truck driver.. etc.

Again, why do you guys care if a bunch of airline workers need to get new jobs.. You’ll be employed.
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short bus
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by short bus »

You're either doing one hell of a troll here, or you actually believe the garbage you're writing. Either way you're a clown. Try reading the room jackass, many people on this board have been out of work for awhile now and definitely don't want to hear stupid ideas about how we should all go be garbagemen and we should give all our work away to other countries airlines. The only thing we'll end up being a world leader in is unemployment.
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GhostRider6
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by GhostRider6 »

short bus wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:57 am You're either doing one hell of a troll here, or you actually believe the garbage you're writing. Either way you're a clown. Try reading the room jackass, many people on this board have been out of work for awhile now and definitely don't want to hear stupid ideas about how we should all go be garbagemen and we should give all our work away to other countries airlines. The only thing we'll end up being a world leader in is unemployment.

From another thread .. but nonetheless.. a quote from an honorable man and thinker.

Here’s a quote from Kevin O’Leary:

They're ( pilots are ) highly trained. They'll find new jobs in the digital economy. And airlines are very good at going bankrupt... They do it every 10 years. So it's just fine. Stop spending money there.”
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Human Factor
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by Human Factor »

GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:49 pm
Braun wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:44 pm Aviation is essential. Pilots are essential. ATC are essential.


Hells bells, Aviation is a privilege not a right. ( breathing, eating and drinking is a right) .. is there any role the the Canadian Military could not fill in lieu on Commerical air travel? The virus would get under control as opposed to spreading it all over hell’s half acre.

This guy’s got it figured out :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk


Or what if ATC / the government specifically approved individual flights as opposed to Willy Nilly travel that is present now?

Either way, you guys would stay employed. How dangerous has it been to go to work ? ATC is required..

Pilots/ aviation workers can find other lines of work elsewhere quite easily.

How is air travel going from an ATC perspective?

The Honorable Minister Omar Alagabra and the Honorable Prime Minister Justin Trudeau almost ( and should have) done a full ground stop of all air travel in Canada similar to 9/11. Ever ask why? It’s dangerous! It’s spreading this killer bug.

Thankfully, Canadian carriers can’t fly to sun destinations..Sadly, it’s days late and about a million dollars short.
There's nothing honourable about Justin Trudeau.

You don't belong here. Go away now.
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McKinley
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by McKinley »

Human Factor wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:04 am
GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:49 pm
Braun wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:44 pm Aviation is essential. Pilots are essential. ATC are essential.


Hells bells, Aviation is a privilege not a right. ( breathing, eating and drinking is a right) .. is there any role the the Canadian Military could not fill in lieu on Commerical air travel? The virus would get under control as opposed to spreading it all over hell’s half acre.

This guy’s got it figured out :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk


Or what if ATC / the government specifically approved individual flights as opposed to Willy Nilly travel that is present now?

Either way, you guys would stay employed. How dangerous has it been to go to work ? ATC is required..

Pilots/ aviation workers can find other lines of work elsewhere quite easily.

How is air travel going from an ATC perspective?

The Honorable Minister Omar Alagabra and the Honorable Prime Minister Justin Trudeau almost ( and should have) done a full ground stop of all air travel in Canada similar to 9/11. Ever ask why? It’s dangerous! It’s spreading this killer bug.

Thankfully, Canadian carriers can’t fly to sun destinations..Sadly, it’s days late and about a million dollars short.
There's nothing honourable about Justin Trudeau.

You don't belong here. Go away now.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1wp_g62NY ... e=youtu.be

I think that pretty much says it all...

And so does the minister of transport :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YduMzabasXI

Yes, they nearly did a full ground stop.. and opted not to due to vaccine, trade etc.

I don’t know who is making policy in YOW but both lives and livelihoods must be weighed. If the government wants to shut down entire sectors and put people out of business / work for a indeterminate period of time they should be compensated FULLY. ( whether they are in air travel or not) CERB is not compensation.

If Crash into someone and put them out of work.. my insurance/ I am sued as compensation to the victim for loss of career, mental suffering etc. Putting people out of work is causing damage / suffering on a massive scale even if it’s to stop a virus.

To the OP.. I imagine its damn quiet. Eerily so..

As a sidnote, as a pilot many of you I never met.. I only know you folks from your radio voice. I miss you guys... and I hope we all get to go to work again soon.
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digits_
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by digits_ »

McKinley wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:46 pm
If Crash into someone and put them out of work.. my insurance/ I am sued as compensation to the victim for loss of career, mental suffering etc. Putting people out of work is causing damage / suffering on a massive scale even if it’s to stop a virus.
Sure, but suing the government would be more like suing the paramedic for cutting off your clothes while he was resuscitating you. The government didn't cause the virus.

I think many other countries have demonstrated there is no perfect approach to manage the virus.
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by 16SidedOffice »

GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:18 pm No US carriers are flying in. Even if they are,( which they aren’t) so what.. ?
Where did you hear that? It's definitely reduced but they are still operating to Canada.
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thenoflyzone
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by thenoflyzone »

McKinley wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:46 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1wp_g62NY ... e=youtu.be

I think that pretty much says it all...

Yeah, but your video isn't as catchy or funny as his.

After all, anyone who links to a music video, twice no less, of an old guy singing someone else's song, must know what he's talking about !!
GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:26 pm How much air travel is occurring right now? How much domestic vs overseas?
Mostly domestic. Very little overseas, which is mostly concentrated at YYZ, YUL and YVR. Most of the overseas stuff is cargo anyways.
GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:26 pmFrom the ATS perspective, has the government done a good job at discouraging Canadians from air travel?
Yes.
GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:26 pmWhat are working conditions like at ATC? It must be frightening to go to work.


No it isn't. Conditions are good. Every precaution is taken to limit the spread of COVID, even at work.
GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:18 pm Blah blah blah conspiracy theories ! No US carriers are flying in. Even if they are,( which they aren’t) so what.. ? At least our carriers and government is doing the right. thing.
Yes they are. I can book YUL-MIA through AA (via PHL) tomorrow if I wanted to.

Look, I understand you're scared of COVID and seem to be at risk of getting it, due to your age and health. That doesn't mean an entire industry (that is already suffering btw) should stop entirely just so you can feel safe.

Aviation isn't the major spreader anymore. Very few people are flying. Those that do (at least internationally) need to get tested and so on. Look at the airport passenger stats at your local airport and compare it to 2019 numbers. It tells the whole story.

I suggest you do some research next time before posting silly comments or posting silly songs as a source for anything. It’s a catchy tune though, I’ll give you that!

And for the love of God, dont quote Kevin O’Leary. Ever!
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Re: How much air travel is out there right now?

Post by Mayor_McCheese »

GhostRider6 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:18 pm
Blah blah blah conspiracy theories ! No US carriers are flying in. Even if they are,( which they aren’t) so what.. ? At least our carriers and government is doing the right. thing.
Really? Take 10 seconds and do a quick search. Tomorrow YYZ to ATL you have the choice of no less than 4 airlines (including Delta, United, American and Air Canada).
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