YYZ Low & OVer in light GA A/C

niss · Post by **niss** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:27 am

I keep hearing about the odd light GA (172, DA20, PA28, etc) that is allowed to do a low and over for YYZ.

How are these arranged? Are there specific times where it is quiet enough?

cossack · Post by **cossack** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:14 am

No specific times but at quieter times you're more likely to be accommodated. If you're coming out of YTZ ask them or 119.3 and they will ask us. Normally not denied, but don't be offended if it is.

niss · Post by **niss** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:03 am

So if I decided to come down to Toronto from Barrie just call Centre up and ask for a low & over?

If they would allow a low & over why would they not allow me to land? Does it become an issue of ground handling speed, etc?

Sulako · Post by **Sulako** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:20 am

You can land if you want, just be prepared to get crushed by the landing and ground handling fees

Seriously, it's going to cost you hundreds of dollars in handling at the FBO's.

I just called FSS to confirm, and there is no actual restriction going in to YYZ on a VFR flight plan but realistically you should tanker some extra gas for the inevitable holding that you will have to do while they try to squeak you in between turbojets. The normal airspeed for arriving aircraft is not below 170 knots until you hit the marker, and that's going to be tough to do in most GA singles.

I do see the occasional Caravan on floats there, and I've also seen a few single-engine piston planes as well. It's just not the most relaxing arrival.

niss · Post by **niss** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:23 am

So not exactly a feasible option to ferry friends and family to YYZ from here?

Sulako · Post by **Sulako** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:25 am

Depends on your definition of feasible. It's not the cheapest airport to land at, that's for sure.

Call Landmark / Shell , Skycharter and Skyservice to see what their handling fees are for your plane, and then you'll have a much better idea.

niss · Post by **niss** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:28 am

Cool. Thx Sully.

BTW when the hell are you going to update your blog?

cossack · Post by **cossack** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:38 am

To clarify further:
A low and over of an active runway is probably not going to be accommodated but an overflight at 2000 or maybe 1500 would be. A low and over would cause delays to other users and wake turbulence considerations for your light type behind heavier types. WT waivers are not permitted at YYZ.
I handled a low and over after 10pm a couple of weeks ago. We were landing on 05 and 6L and departing 6L and the low and over was done on 33L with a turn NE before 05. He didn't seem to understand why I needed the turn before 05 and he got closer than I would have liked. Overflight is much easier.

photofly · Post by **photofly** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:04 am

niss wrote:So not exactly a feasible option to ferry friends and family to YYZ from here?

Guy I know got a ferry from YTZ to YYZ in a 172 to pick up his private jet. The ramp fee was waived by the FBO (because his jet was parked there), the landing fee was about $200, and he was orbiting for 10-15 minutes or more until he could be fitted in.

It's a long way to the passenger terminals too.

Rookie50 · Post by **Rookie50** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:48 pm

cossack wrote:To clarify further:
A low and over of an active runway is probably not going to be accommodated but an overflight at 2000 or maybe 1500 would be. A low and over would cause delays to other users and wake turbulence considerations for your light type behind heavier types. WT waivers are not permitted at YYZ.
I handled a low and over after 10pm a couple of weeks ago. We were landing on 05 and 6L and departing 6L and the low and over was done on 33L with a turn NE before 05. He didn't seem to understand why I needed the turn before 05 and he got closer than I would have liked. Overflight is much easier.

Gotta ask for that one day at 2000 or whatever when its really quiet, just once out of YTZ. I've overflown right down 05....at 7000 coming out of YKF to ottawa. (cleared that route -- via YYZ vor) Even that was kinda cool....seeing a plane below me start the roll down 05.

Otherwise.....landing at big airports lost whatever appeal it had...give me a nice U/C or regional when needed for customs or something.

Broken Slinky · Post by **Broken Slinky** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:19 pm

photofly wrote:
niss wrote:So not exactly a feasible option to ferry friends and family to YYZ from here?
the landing fee was about $200, and he was orbiting for 10-15 minutes or more until he could be fitted in.

It's a long way to the passenger terminals too.

An instructor told me he had a charter flight into YYZ to drop off a family. They ended up with a $200 landing fee and $150 handling fee. ATC had them land at one of the runways farthest from the heavy traffic and farthest from the FBO. Took them a ton of time (and fuel) to get taxi'd in and back out. The money was not an issue for the family so...
For me, $300 would pay for really nice town car to take you anywhere in Toronto from YTZ. $50 is what I was charged last time to overnight on the island.
Besides the view coming into the island is a lot nicer, especially at night.

If you're ever in the Windsor/Detroit area, contact DTW approach and request "the cage". They will put you right over the center of the airport and you get to watch the heavies take off under you.

photofly · Post by **photofly** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:25 pm

Hard to beat the Bay Area tour and overflight of SFO at 2000' watching the scheduled traffic climbing into and then out of the mist carpet around the Golden Gate Bridge. Any time of day.

skypirate88 · Post by **skypirate88** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:04 am

Departing one night from CNC3 for a city tour, the terminal controller asked if I was comfortable enough to do a pass down 15. It was sometime after 2200 local and I guess they weren't particularly busy.
The view looking down at terminal 1 was excellent.

upintheair_ · Post by **upintheair_** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:19 am

Similar in Vancouver. You can request a training slot time and then an approach/low over at YVR. Only during certain times though. So long as you don't go below a certain alt./touch the runway you don't get charged the landing fee.

One time someone "accidentally" touched down, the school was not impressed with the bill they got.

esc · Post by **esc** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:06 pm

photofly wrote:
niss wrote:So not exactly a feasible option to ferry friends and family to YYZ from here?
Guy I know got a ferry from YTZ to YYZ in a 172 to pick up his private jet. The ramp fee was waived by the FBO (because his jet was parked there), the landing fee was about $200, and he was orbiting for 10-15 minutes or more until he could be fitted in.

It's a long way to the passenger terminals too.

lucky me... I was into YYZ several times in the 80s in a Cherokee... my recollection was that landing cost me less than $20 and Avitat did not charge me for parking. Timing is everything... now... where did I leave that TARDIS key?

YYZ Low & OVer in light GA A/C

YYZ Low & OVer in light GA A/C

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Re: YYZ Low & OVer in light GA A/C

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Re: YYZ Low & OVer in light GA A/C

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