Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

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jcher28
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Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#1 Post by jcher28 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:29 pm

Hi Everyone,

From one candidate to another, whether I'm successful or not, I wanted to reach out and offer any help or information anyone needs regarding the application process. Here's where I am in the process:

Candidate Area - Vancouver, BC

Registration/Application: June 25, 2014
Cognitive Ability Test/Results: June 25, 2014
Assessment Session Invitation [e-mail]: Mid April 2015
Assessment Session Attendance: May 21, 2015
Assessment Testing Results: June 1, 2015
First Round Phone Interview Invitation [phone call]: June 5, 2015
First Round Phone Interview: June 17, 2015
First Round Phone Interview Results: June 22, 2015
Second Round In-Person Interview Invitation [email]: December 22, 2015
Second Round In-Person Interview: January 18, 2016
Second Round In-Person Interview Results: TBD
Training Offer: TBD

As you can see, it's been a long process for me. From what I've read on this forum and others, take this information with a grain of salt. Some of you may move quicker through the system then I did, and others may be slower, but it's important to remember it's out of your control. You may a specific stream you're targeting, whether it's IFR [Area Control], VFR [Tower Control] for FSS [Flight Service Specialist], it's very likely you could end up down a different path. It's all to do with current staffing levels in the area you're applying for, scheduled courses and, of course, your overall "score" as a candidate. Best to just be prepared for everything and be willing to take whatever they give you if the opportunity comes.

During my In-Person Interview I was told that the national average success rate for the IFR stream is only 35%, and there's only 4 candidates per training class. VFR is a bit better at 50%. I didn't ask about FSS, sorry. Meaning, even if you're successful at getting a training offer, you aren't guaranteed anything.

Anyways, I'm not sharing that to frighten anyone, it's just the facts. So, if anyone has any questions please feel free to ask and I will do the best I can to share my experiences.

Jeff
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belivo
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#2 Post by belivo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:50 pm

Thank you very much for this information. Very useful.

I'm very interested in applying and researching daily about the job. I'm lucky enough to know 2 ATC's in my area. They have been very helpful, but I still have questions.

How long is the initial online test? And all I read is that you can't study for it. I'm still looking at my family financial situation, but looking at the timeline, I think I should maybe just do the online test soon and see if I even pass.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#3 Post by TheSteamingPile » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:31 am

Jeff,

6 in my course. Talk of 12 in the next IFR course. It's on the other coast so things may be different but don't take everything you're told as the only truth. Good luck to you.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#4 Post by TheSealRimRady » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:44 am

belivo wrote:Thank you very much for this information. Very useful.

I'm very interested in applying and researching daily about the job. I'm lucky enough to know 2 ATC's in my area. They have been very helpful, but I still have questions.

How long is the initial online test? And all I read is that you can't study for it. I'm still looking at my family financial situation, but looking at the timeline, I think I should maybe just do the online test soon and see if I even pass.
Whoever told you that you can't study for it is only partially correct. You can get into the correct mind set by doing a couple of online aptitude tests first. As for the personality test, take it very seriously. Do some research about the qualities and traits of a desired controller. I would definitely apply now even with your financial situation in mind, the application process can take anywhere from six months (highly unlikely) to a couple years depending on training requirements.

The cognitive test is 8 minutes long I believe. If you have any questions about the process feel free to PM me.

I was just recently placed onto an IFR course for slated for March and my application took about ten months.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#5 Post by s1yx » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:37 pm

My IFR course started with 8, it all depends on the operational requirements for your region; YEG has a decent amount of under staffed specialties so they will slot more people on the Generic course. Also, the 35% success rate doesn't factor in people who voluntarily withdraw from the program so for the trainees who stay in as long as they can I would guess that the success rate is a little higher.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#6 Post by saminbc » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:59 pm

Jeff,

Looks like you and I might end up together..!!

Registration : 19 Sep, 2014
Application : 19 Sep, 2014
Cognitive test : 19 Sep, 2014
Online Results : 19 Sep, 2014
Assessment Session : 21 May, 2015
Assessment Results : 01 Jun, 2015
Phone (1st) Interview : 05 Jun, 2015
2nd Interview invitation : 22 Dec, 2015
2nd Interview : 20 Jan, 2016

My interview was today, and they said that they had an IFR course planned for May. I too was told that each class was about 4 people, but they said they were looking at about 8 candidates.

I will be called for a simulator test in February, and depending on how that goes will receive a training offer thereafter.

Initial generic course runs May-Sep. Oct is the specialized course that should go until next May. And then you have on the job training for a year.

I'm glad things are working out, the wait has been long. I had also considered doing Flight Specialist under Forces.ca. It's the same position except it is military vs civilian.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#7 Post by jcher28 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:08 pm

belivo wrote:Thank you very much for this information. Very useful.

I'm very interested in applying and researching daily about the job. I'm lucky enough to know 2 ATC's in my area. They have been very helpful, but I still have questions.

How long is the initial online test? And all I read is that you can't study for it. I'm still looking at my family financial situation, but looking at the timeline, I think I should maybe just do the online test soon and see if I even pass.
Just as TheSealRimRady mentioned, it's possible to get yourself in the right mindset to take the test, but tough or impossible to actually "study" for. Think of the online tests like an IQ/Personality tests you find online. You're not expected to know anything about aviation, or the career, this is simply to get to know how you think and how your mind works. I also believe the test is 8 minutes in length, and basically they just throw you question after question for 8 minutes. There is no minimum or maximum number of questions you need to answer and you never find out the correct answers. At the end the test, you're done, your results get calculated and within a few hours (i believe) you're either given the green light to proceed to the next step, or you're unsuccessful, in which case you must wait the full calendar year before you can re-apply.

My advice for the test is to take it in a quiet room, by yourself, with no distractions. Clear your head and take it when you're in a calm state of mind. If you go into it stressed out, you're likely going to make errors or second guess yourself. It will really isn't that bad, my money is on you pass it your first attempt.

That being said, I do believe you should go ahead and apply as well. It's very likely going to take over a year to complete the application to the stage where your financial situation should be looked at in depth. The only initial cost in the application stage is the fee to write the in-person assessment, I believe it was just over $200, so be prepared for that. Other than that, it's a long game of patiently waiting.

J
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jcher28
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#8 Post by jcher28 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:44 pm

saminbc wrote:Jeff,

Looks like you and I might end up together..!!

Registration : 19 Sep, 2014
Application : 19 Sep, 2014
Cognitive test : 19 Sep, 2014
Online Results : 19 Sep, 2014
Assessment Session : 21 May, 2015
Assessment Results : 01 Jun, 2015
Phone (1st) Interview : 05 Jun, 2015
2nd Interview invitation : 22 Dec, 2015
2nd Interview : 20 Jan, 2016

My interview was today, and they said that they had an IFR course planned for May. I too was told that each class was about 4 people, but they said they were looking at about 8 candidates.

I will be called for a simulator test in February, and depending on how that goes will receive a training offer thereafter.

Initial generic course runs May-Sep. Oct is the specialized course that should go until next May. And then you have on the job training for a year.

I'm glad things are working out, the wait has been long. I had also considered doing Flight Specialist under Forces.ca. It's the same position except it is military vs civilian.
Awesome! Fingers crossed. Perhaps, I didn't understand correctly, but I thought they said only the successful candidates will get to go to the practice sim in February. Meaning, if you get the phone call for the sim, you're guaranteed a spot in May. He made it seem as though the sim was strictly for practice and would not be weighed or judged at all. But like I said, maybe I misunderstood. Either way, keep me updated if you hear anything and I'll do the same.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#9 Post by Braun » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:17 pm

saminbc wrote:Jeff,

Looks like you and I might end up together..!!

Registration : 19 Sep, 2014
Application : 19 Sep, 2014
Cognitive test : 19 Sep, 2014
Online Results : 19 Sep, 2014
Assessment Session : 21 May, 2015
Assessment Results : 01 Jun, 2015
Phone (1st) Interview : 05 Jun, 2015
2nd Interview invitation : 22 Dec, 2015
2nd Interview : 20 Jan, 2016

My interview was today, and they said that they had an IFR course planned for May. I too was told that each class was about 4 people, but they said they were looking at about 8 candidates.

I will be called for a simulator test in February, and depending on how that goes will receive a training offer thereafter.

Initial generic course runs May-Sep. Oct is the specialized course that should go until next May. And then you have on the job training for a year.

I'm glad things are working out, the wait has been long. I had also considered doing Flight Specialist under Forces.ca. It's the same position except it is military vs civilian.
Don't be fooled. Civilian vs military ATC is totally different. I'm not sure of the difference between flight specialists and our FSS. Nothing against military ATC personnel.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#10 Post by skier_777 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:58 am

Braun wrote:
saminbc wrote:Jeff,

Looks like you and I might end up together..!!

Registration : 19 Sep, 2014
Application : 19 Sep, 2014
Cognitive test : 19 Sep, 2014
Online Results : 19 Sep, 2014
Assessment Session : 21 May, 2015
Assessment Results : 01 Jun, 2015
Phone (1st) Interview : 05 Jun, 2015
2nd Interview invitation : 22 Dec, 2015
2nd Interview : 20 Jan, 2016

My interview was today, and they said that they had an IFR course planned for May. I too was told that each class was about 4 people, but they said they were looking at about 8 candidates.

I will be called for a simulator test in February, and depending on how that goes will receive a training offer thereafter.

Initial generic course runs May-Sep. Oct is the specialized course that should go until next May. And then you have on the job training for a year.

I'm glad things are working out, the wait has been long. I had also considered doing Flight Specialist under Forces.ca. It's the same position except it is military vs civilian.
Don't be fooled. Civilian vs military ATC is totally different. I'm not sure of the difference between flight specialists and our FSS. Nothing against military ATC personnel.
Ref the simulator - is that a YVR only thing? I have never heard of ACCs doing a sim prior to an IFR course? Someone also mentioned it has no impact on your placement on the course. If so, I wonder if this is NavCan's way of showing people what they are in for prior to investing in them - to help curb the voluntary withdrawals someone mentioned - a thanks but no thanks would be better before the course starts. Maybe along the lines of be careful what you wish for.... Or they are trying to come up with a future assessment method. Just guessing.

Ref the military ATC, not sure if I would say "totally different", just a "bit different" than NavCan :wink:. Same Manops after all. Some diffs I'm aware of, for starters, if you don't have a degree I'm pretty sure you will not be the actual VFR or IFR controller. You could be a ground controller, a PAR controller or other helper type positions. There is also no ATC pay scale that I am aware of either – paid standard officer pay as per the website (still good, but different than NavCan). There are always good and bad things with any career, but I would take a run at NavCan first if you want to be a controller.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#11 Post by jcher28 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:28 pm

skier_777 wrote:
Braun wrote:
saminbc wrote:
Ref the simulator - is that a YVR only thing? I have never heard of ACCs doing a sim prior to an IFR course? Someone also mentioned it has no impact on your placement on the course. If so, I wonder if this is NavCan's way of showing people what they are in for prior to investing in them - to help curb the voluntary withdrawals someone mentioned - a thanks but no thanks would be better before the course starts. Maybe along the lines of be careful what you wish for.... Or they are trying to come up with a future assessment method. Just guessing.

Ref the military ATC, not sure if I would say "totally different", just a "bit different" than NavCan :wink:. Same Manops after all. Some diffs I'm aware of, for starters, if you don't have a degree I'm pretty sure you will not be the actual VFR or IFR controller. You could be a ground controller, a PAR controller or other helper type positions. There is also no ATC pay scale that I am aware of either – paid standard officer pay as per the website (still good, but different than NavCan). There are always good and bad things with any career, but I would take a run at NavCan first if you want to be a controller.
For the simulator, I think that's exactly what it's being used for. Solely for the purpose of giving candidates a taste of what's in store, so they can do one final "is this for me?" before registering and paying for the class. They said they were doing the sim in february and filling for an IFR course in May - again, there seems to be some possible confusion whether the sim results will have any impact on a training offer or not. I have a hard time believing they would. That would be like sending a 15 year old with no prior driving experience on the autobahn and if he doesn't cause any accidents can be eligible for his learners permit. Then again... I've come to learn to be ready for anything....
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#12 Post by kevenv » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:23 pm

saminbc wrote:I had also considered doing Flight Specialist under Forces.ca. It's the same position except it is military vs civilian.
After a career in the military including ATC, I feel confident in saying there is no equivalent to FSS in the military.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#13 Post by kevenv » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:28 pm

skier_777 wrote: Ref the military ATC, not sure if I would say "totally different", just a "bit different" than NavCan :wink:. Same Manops after all. Some diffs I'm aware of, for starters, if you don't have a degree I'm pretty sure you will not be the actual VFR or IFR controller. You could be a ground controller, a PAR controller or other helper type positions. There is also no ATC pay scale that I am aware of either – paid standard officer pay as per the website (still good, but different than NavCan). There are always good and bad things with any career, but I would take a run at NavCan first if you want to be a controller.
Having done the training, successfully for both military and civilian ATC, I can assure you the two jobs are completely different. From the mindset to the way rules are applied, there is more different than there is the same.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#14 Post by skier_777 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:03 pm

kevenv wrote:
skier_777 wrote: Ref the military ATC, not sure if I would say "totally different", just a "bit different" than NavCan :wink:. Same Manops after all. Some diffs I'm aware of, for starters, if you don't have a degree I'm pretty sure you will not be the actual VFR or IFR controller. You could be a ground controller, a PAR controller or other helper type positions. There is also no ATC pay scale that I am aware of either – paid standard officer pay as per the website (still good, but different than NavCan). There are always good and bad things with any career, but I would take a run at NavCan first if you want to be a controller.
Having done the training, successfully for both military and civilian ATC, I can assure you the two jobs are completely different. From the mindset to the way rules are applied, there is more different than there is the same.
Oh. I stand corrected - closer to "totally" vs a "bit" different then..... but you guys do sound generally the same on the radio :)
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#15 Post by chobs » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:23 pm

jcher28 wrote: For the simulator, I think that's exactly what it's being used for. Solely for the purpose of giving candidates a taste of what's in store, so they can do one final "is this for me?" before registering and paying for the class. They said they were doing the sim in february and filling for an IFR course in May - again, there seems to be some possible confusion whether the sim results will have any impact on a training offer or not. I have a hard time believing they would. That would be like sending a 15 year old with no prior driving experience on the autobahn and if he doesn't cause any accidents can be eligible for his learners permit. Then again... I've come to learn to be ready for anything....
Personally I have a different opinion.

When I did my in-person interview, afterwards they let candidates go in and play around a bit with the IFR simulator under the instruction of the course instructor.

He ran me through a few basic things - the phraseology to get a plane to rise or descend and how to get them to vector around a certain area... There were only a few planes in the airspace and for about 10 minutes or so he would tell me to move a certain plane or vector a certain plane.. It was quick, but even in the 10 to 15 minutes we were there I was able to learn some of the basics... Afterwards I asked him if I was being graded/marked on how I did as part of my final interview.. he said I wasn't.

Frankly, I asked why not? In my opinion getting someone in on the simulator, giving them some instructions, seeing how they react to the "pressure" of having to perform is a far better test of how someone might do in this career than hearing them answer behavioural questions in an interview, for example.

The instructor agreed with me and mentioned he was trying to possibly set something up where they could implement the simulator as part of training.

So yeah I am not sure how the simulator is being used in your case, but in my opinion I think it would be great if they brought candidates in to test on the simulator as part of the final interview.

Think of it this way, if someone loses their cool and cracks under the pressure of a test as part of an interview, that's probably not someone destined for long-term success in air traffic control. But that's just my opinion anyway.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#16 Post by s1yx » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:49 pm

chobs wrote:
jcher28 wrote: For the simulator, I think that's exactly what it's being used for. Solely for the purpose of giving candidates a taste of what's in store, so they can do one final "is this for me?" before registering and paying for the class. They said they were doing the sim in february and filling for an IFR course in May - again, there seems to be some possible confusion whether the sim results will have any impact on a training offer or not. I have a hard time believing they would. That would be like sending a 15 year old with no prior driving experience on the autobahn and if he doesn't cause any accidents can be eligible for his learners permit. Then again... I've come to learn to be ready for anything....
Personally I have a different opinion.

When I did my in-person interview, afterwards they let candidates go in and play around a bit with the IFR simulator under the instruction of the course instructor.

He ran me through a few basic things - the phraseology to get a plane to rise or descend and how to get them to vector around a certain area... There were only a few planes in the airspace and for about 10 minutes or so he would tell me to move a certain plane or vector a certain plane.. It was quick, but even in the 10 to 15 minutes we were there I was able to learn some of the basics... Afterwards I asked him if I was being graded/marked on how I did as part of my final interview.. he said I wasn't.

Frankly, I asked why not? In my opinion getting someone in on the simulator, giving them some instructions, seeing how they react to the "pressure" of having to perform is a far better test of how someone might do in this career than hearing them answer behavioural questions in an interview, for example.

The instructor agreed with me and mentioned he was trying to possibly set something up where they could implement the simulator as part of training.

So yeah I am not sure how the simulator is being used in your case, but in my opinion I think it would be great if they brought candidates in to test on the simulator as part of the final interview.

Think of it this way, if someone loses their cool and cracks under the pressure of a test as part of an interview, that's probably not someone destined for long-term success in air traffic control. But that's just my opinion anyway.
I'm not convinced this would help. The first month of exercises on the sim is extremely basic, and the first few exercises - basically what you did with the instructor during your interview - are something almost anyone could do, regardless of if they would cut it in the long run. We had a person in our IFR class who most people had pegged as someone who wasn't a likely candidate for 'going the distance' and even they excelled at the entry level, only to be let go very shortly thereafter. I suppose this would weed out extreme cases of unqualified applicants, but I highly doubt these people would have made it to the final interview in the first place.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#17 Post by chobs » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:56 pm

s1yx wrote: I'm not convinced this would help. The first month of exercises on the sim is extremely basic, and the first few exercises - basically what you did with the instructor during your interview - are something almost anyone could do, regardless of if they would cut it in the long run. We had a person in our IFR class who most people had pegged as someone who wasn't a likely candidate for 'going the distance' and even they excelled at the entry level, only to be let go very shortly thereafter. I suppose this would weed out extreme cases of unqualified applicants, but I highly doubt these people would have made it to the final interview in the first place.
Makes sense and your insights would be more informed than mine since you have the in-course experience. I guess my thought was that perhaps in the run of say an hour testing session the complexity could be dialed up in successive tests to see how people do when things get tougher. Yes the basics are pretty straightforward, but maybe it would become a much greater challenge and help better determine skills if say it was an airspace with 20 to 30 planes in it as opposed to the 3 or 4 in the very basic practice runs.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#18 Post by saminbc » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:47 pm

Glad to know then that I didn't pursue the Forces.ca route.

I'm not sure about the sim thing in February, however he did say that the dates would be given after the sim, maybe it does have some bearing, maybe it doesn't. I don't expect to go there prepared for it (I mean, how would I?) so perhaps it is a way to give someone a taste of what's in store.

Well, nothing to do but wait now. I am working on getting the financials in order so that I don't have to worry about it doing this. I do need to get a little bit of paperwork done, so I am focused on that for the moment.

Oh and I had one more observation. He mentioned that the first course goes from May-Sep. Then the individual speciality course starts from Oct to May and only on completion of THAT are you given the basic contract at a trainee salary. Going for a year without work. That is going to be fun. I did say I would consider taking an after hours position, but he said that probably will not be possible.

How did all of you manage?
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#19 Post by jcher28 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:59 pm

chobs wrote:
s1yx wrote: I'm not convinced this would help. The first month of exercises on the sim is extremely basic, and the first few exercises - basically what you did with the instructor during your interview - are something almost anyone could do, regardless of if they would cut it in the long run. We had a person in our IFR class who most people had pegged as someone who wasn't a likely candidate for 'going the distance' and even they excelled at the entry level, only to be let go very shortly thereafter. I suppose this would weed out extreme cases of unqualified applicants, but I highly doubt these people would have made it to the final interview in the first place.
Makes sense and your insights would be more informed than mine since you have the in-course experience. I guess my thought was that perhaps in the run of say an hour testing session the complexity could be dialed up in successive tests to see how people do when things get tougher. Yes the basics are pretty straightforward, but maybe it would become a much greater challenge and help better determine skills if say it was an airspace with 20 to 30 planes in it as opposed to the 3 or 4 in the very basic practice runs.
As someone that is potentially going into this pre-generic training sim. I agree and disagree with you. While there could be a positive or 2 with examining and scoring the sim and basing individual performances to decide whether they're 'cut out' for training or not; The unfair-ness of that, outweighs any potential benefits. They may as well take it a step further and only interview candidates that have previous experience. I agree it's important to see how someone reacts in a stressful situation, to see whether they freeze up or can think on the spot and attempt to correct it. But that should come after at least a few weeks of training/instructions, once you have a basic understanding of the tools/knowledge in front of you. Everyone needs to walk before they can run. Just my two-cents.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#20 Post by s1yx » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:40 pm

saminbc wrote: Oh and I had one more observation. He mentioned that the first course goes from May-Sep. Then the individual speciality course starts from Oct to May and only on completion of THAT are you given the basic contract at a trainee salary. Going for a year without work. That is going to be fun. I did say I would consider taking an after hours position, but he said that probably will not be possible.

How did all of you manage?
I'm sure at some point someone has managed to complete training while working on the side, but I couldn't imagine doing that. The amount of my life that has been invested into training has been absolutely insane. I am exhausted after most days of lecture and sim but need to either stay late to practice in the simulator or go home and study theory. Time for things that I actually want to do doesn't exist, let alone trying to find time to work. Obviously this will vary from person to person, and from stream to stream. If you get VFR you only really need to worry about 4-6 months of unpaid training; as soon as you hit your tower you are making training wages. Same deal for FSS. IFR is the only stream where you will have to eat a year unpaid currently so consider that if you are offered an FSS or VFR course - you can always transfer to IFR later AND you will make your FSS or VFR salary while training for VFR AND if for some reason you are CT'd at that point you can return to your other position and continue being employed.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#21 Post by jcher28 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:08 am

s1yx wrote:
saminbc wrote:
I'm sure at some point someone has managed to complete training while working on the side, but I couldn't imagine doing that. The amount of my life that has been invested into training has been absolutely insane. I am exhausted after most days of lecture and sim but need to either stay late to practice in the simulator or go home and study theory. Time for things that I actually want to do doesn't exist, let alone trying to find time to work. Obviously this will vary from person to person, and from stream to stream. If you get VFR you only really need to worry about 4-6 months of unpaid training; as soon as you hit your tower you are making training wages. Same deal for FSS. IFR is the only stream where you will have to eat a year unpaid currently so consider that if you are offered an FSS or VFR course - you can always transfer to IFR later AND you will make your FSS or VFR salary while training for VFR AND if for some reason you are CT'd at that point you can return to your other position and continue being employed.
Just for my own curiosity, what's a typical ITA Training day like? Is it Monday Friday? 7a-4p? Lunch, breaks? Etc.
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TheSteamingPile
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#22 Post by TheSteamingPile » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:23 am

jcher28 wrote:
s1yx wrote:
saminbc wrote:
I'm sure at some point someone has managed to complete training while working on the side, but I couldn't imagine doing that. The amount of my life that has been invested into training has been absolutely insane. I am exhausted after most days of lecture and sim but need to either stay late to practice in the simulator or go home and study theory. Time for things that I actually want to do doesn't exist, let alone trying to find time to work. Obviously this will vary from person to person, and from stream to stream. If you get VFR you only really need to worry about 4-6 months of unpaid training; as soon as you hit your tower you are making training wages. Same deal for FSS. IFR is the only stream where you will have to eat a year unpaid currently so consider that if you are offered an FSS or VFR course - you can always transfer to IFR later AND you will make your FSS or VFR salary while training for VFR AND if for some reason you are CT'd at that point you can return to your other position and continue being employed.
Just for my own curiosity, what's a typical ITA Training day like? Is it Monday Friday? 7a-4p? Lunch, breaks? Etc.

For me anyway the base hours are 7am-3pm with about 45mins for lunch. However, my hours end up being more like 6am-5pm at the ACC (either doing extra sim runs or studying for exams) then another 2hours or so at home. It is exhausting considering you're basically sitting on your butt all day. This is just my personal experience and others may not need as much study time.
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s1yx
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#23 Post by s1yx » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:34 pm

TheSteamingPile wrote:
jcher28 wrote:
saminbc wrote:
Just for my own curiosity, what's a typical ITA Training day like? Is it Monday Friday? 7a-4p? Lunch, breaks? Etc.

For me anyway the base hours are 7am-3pm with about 45mins for lunch. However, my hours end up being more like 6am-5pm at the ACC (either doing extra sim runs or studying for exams) then another 2hours or so at home. It is exhausting considering you're basically sitting on your butt all day. This is just my personal experience and others may not need as much study time.
This sounds fairly reasonable, the course hours are set regionally and are quite flexible depending on what your instructors want to do, rate of progression, etc. We are scheduled Monday to Friday from 8-5. Occasionally we start at 730, and the end of day often ranges from 4-6, but it is definitely not unheard of to stay later to grind out that extra sim time around Evals (we had one this week and there were some looooong days at the ACC).

On days where you are only doing sim runs we started making a schedule so that people knew what time their run was going to be at. With a large class size this is pretty paramount otherwise there will be a lot of sitting around during sims as the instructors can only do so many at a time and they get to be fairly long runs. Doing this you can sleep in some days, leave early some days, etc, etc.
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#24 Post by ProfessionalATC » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:59 pm

Thank you all for your informative posts. I have consumed a lot of knowledge from this board and as I commence my preparation for the nav canada application and entry tests (whatever preparation can be done) I will definitely try to contribute as much as I can to help others on this board as I go through the selection process.

Right now I'm doing some IQ tests, brushing up on some high school math and so on in an effort to hopefully increase my chances of being successful in the application process.

Thank you all
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saminbc
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Re: Your application questions answered - IFR VFR FSS

#25 Post by saminbc » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:30 pm

Well it is now about two weeks since my interview. My NAVCanada page still hasn't been updated to show the result of my interview, so in the meantime I am just taking care of a few other items, getting my paperwork in order etc.

I also went today to get my medical done. It cost about $175 (although I was offered one place that did it for $10 less) and is a hurdle I would like to clear so that if they offer me something, I will be in a position to say yes straight away.

If you are going to do your medical, I would suggest Dr D Hedges in New West. He was really good. He's sending me for an audiometry test and for an ECG. Both standard the first time you apply for your Civil Aviation Medical.
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