Training Changes....

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W0XOF
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Training Changes....

#1 Post by W0XOF » Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:15 pm

Some info regarding changes to the abinitio training program are starting to make its way around the regions. Keep an eye out for official info when it comes out. Very positive changes with the ultimate goal of attracting the best candidates.
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skier_777
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Re: Training Changes....

#2 Post by skier_777 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:03 pm

W0XOF wrote:Some info regarding changes to the abinitio training program are starting to make its way around the regions. Keep an eye out for official info when it comes out. Very positive changes with the ultimate goal of attracting the best candidates.
I hope it is at least 50k a year from day 1 of training....... or maybe salary match to what you currently make. In my mind that is the show stopper for anyone with a bit of life experience already.
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ProfessionalATC
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Re: Training Changes....

#3 Post by ProfessionalATC » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:24 pm

Paying the candidates as they do classroom training would definitely help them recruit the best candidates. I think there are a lot of good people who would have otherwise attempt it if this portion was paid. There are other things they could do which would be an improvement to ab initio training but i guess we just have to wait for the official announcement.
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poseidon
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Re: Training Changes....

#4 Post by poseidon » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:27 am

It would be nice if you got paid during training, but i don't think that will happen
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rspencer38
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Re: Training Changes....

#5 Post by rspencer38 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:53 am

Any idea when these changes will be announced?
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crazy horse
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Re: Training Changes....

#6 Post by crazy horse » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:19 pm

poseidon wrote:It would be nice if you got paid during training, but i don't think that will happen
You might be surprised :wink:
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rspencer38
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Re: Training Changes....

#7 Post by rspencer38 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:18 am

crazy horse wrote:
poseidon wrote:It would be nice if you got paid during training, but i don't think that will happen
You might be surprised :wink:
Are you suggesting you know what the changes are???? :shock: Does anyone actually know what the changes are or just that there will be changes?? :?:
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kevenv
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Re: Training Changes....

#8 Post by kevenv » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:34 am

The current course in YQM came out on the floor part way through their specialty training. They started to be paid effective that date. They are now employees so when they go back in the school to finish the course they are paid and put on a 4/3 cycle.
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poseidon
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Re: Training Changes....

#9 Post by poseidon » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:56 am

Well i am looking forward to my second interview even more now.... hopefully i get a call sometime soon
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ProfessionalATC
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Re: Training Changes....

#10 Post by ProfessionalATC » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:37 am

kevenv wrote:The current course in YQM came out on the floor part way through their specialty training. They started to be paid effective that date. They are now employees so when they go back in the school to finish the course they are paid and put on a 4/3 cycle.

That's really positive news. The training wont be as burdensome for some people anymore.
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Braun
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Re: Training Changes....

#11 Post by Braun » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:19 pm

In our unit we have modified the training program so trainees get paid a few months earlier than they were before.
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s1yx
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Re: Training Changes....

#12 Post by s1yx » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:18 pm

In YEG we are doing something they are calling OJSC, or on the job skills consolidation. With this program you will 'go operational' during your specialty training and go work live traffic in positions you have learned in your sim up to that point, and you begin earning a training salary at this point. We have heard however that there is a big push to have students begin receiving salary at the start of generic training.
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rspencer38
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Re: Training Changes....

#13 Post by rspencer38 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:11 pm

Little confused, seems different areas have their own little version. Are they rolling out salary for all trainees before OTJ? Do they intend to pay right from the start of generic or only when you get to specialty?
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Braun
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Re: Training Changes....

#14 Post by Braun » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:56 am

rspencer38 wrote:Little confused, seems different areas have their own little version. Are they rolling out salary for all trainees before OTJ? Do they intend to pay right from the start of generic or only when you get to specialty?
Haha yes it is confusing. Simply put training is managed at a national and a local level as well. Each sub-unit has it's own speciality training program that trainees follow once they are finished with the generic course (which, theoretically, is the same all over the country). What we used to do is let trainees start OJT only at the end of all the theory and simulation of the speciality course which varies in length depending on what sub-unit you are assigned to. Given that you are only paid once you start OJT we decided to make trainees have a few days of OJT at the beginning of the speciality course for several reasons. This now allows trainees, where I work anyways, to be paid a few months earlier than they normally would be. It also allows for a smoother transition into the operational world and a bit of extra motivation since all trainees have had a chance to actually talk to real aircraft.

For now, you will not be paid before OJT but it starts sooner than it used too. Keep in mind I do not know if this is done elsewhere in the country. As for the expected changes to the training program regarding pay and such I can not comment as I do not know 100% all the details and I do not think anything is official yet. All I can say is that for the next few years Nav Canada is going to place a lot of priority into the training program on a national level.

Any other questions just ask away!
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TheSteamingPile
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Re: Training Changes....

#15 Post by TheSteamingPile » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:45 pm

I heard some talk about this today. The new CEO has made a commitment to treating trainees better. Step may or may not include: no longer charging a fee for the training course, earlier paid training (no idea of when that payment period would start but many ACCs are implementing the system Braun spoke of), and more timely course offers/updates to the Take Charge dashboard.

It seems the new CEO was a bit upset that the top 40ish scoring candidates told NavCanada they were no longer interested after waiting 20 months to hear about a course etc.

Anyway, that's 2nd or 3rd hand info but it seems like training in the future will be much less of a burden than it has been. Good news for future applicants.
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snapdawg
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Re: Training Changes....

#16 Post by snapdawg » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:01 pm

Any more info on the incoming changes? I can confirm that VFR and IFR are having their tuition waived for courses starting in the next few months. Anyone have any more info on the possibility of getting paid during generic or specialized training?
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Ko3icty
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Re: Training Changes....

#17 Post by Ko3icty » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:39 pm

It would be awesome if they are starting to pay for the training even minimum just to sustain our living, cause many people cannot afford off work for a whole year or more.
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navcanhopeful
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Re: Training Changes....

#18 Post by navcanhopeful » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:48 am

Any update on the paying of trainees?
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snapdawg
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Re: Training Changes....

#19 Post by snapdawg » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:45 pm

I've heard from a few sources that trainees will be getting paid at an earlier point during training. However they do not have the details ironed out regarding exactly when or how much, so they are keeping quiet for now.
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Top_Gun
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Re: Training Changes....

#20 Post by Top_Gun » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:21 pm

navcanhopeful wrote:Any update on the paying of trainees?
From the Take Charge website

COMPENSATION
When can I expect to start getting paid?

You’ll start to receive a student allowance of $30,000 per year as soon as you begin your training. After you successfully complete the first phase of training, you will begin on-the-job training. At that point, you will become an employee of NAV CANADA and you will earn a student training salary of approximately $35,000 to $40,700 per year. Your salary increases significantly once you’re fully qualified.

Sure sounds like they've changed their tune towards training. Sure wish they they had done this a year ago. I might have been able to swing it.
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4nANT
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Re: Training Changes....

#21 Post by 4nANT » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:12 pm

snapdawg wrote:I've heard from a few sources that trainees will be getting paid at an earlier point during training. However they do not have the details ironed out regarding exactly when or how much, so they are keeping quiet for now.
They updated the Take Charge Website.

IFR & VFR

Phase 1: $30,000

Phase 2: $40,700

FSS

Phase 1: $30,000

Phase 2: $35,000

Now I'm really hoping I get a call for my 2nd interview soon.
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s1yx
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Re: Training Changes....

#22 Post by s1yx » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:59 am

4nANT wrote:
snapdawg wrote:I've heard from a few sources that trainees will be getting paid at an earlier point during training. However they do not have the details ironed out regarding exactly when or how much, so they are keeping quiet for now.
They updated the Take Charge Website.

IFR & VFR

Phase 1: $30,000

Phase 2: $40,700

FSS

Phase 1: $30,000

Phase 2: $35,000

Now I'm really hoping I get a call for my 2nd interview soon.
Tuition is also gone, as are any of the fees for testing. This is a huge step towards bringing in more potentially successful applicants who may not have been able to survive 6-12 months with no income. It also appears there might be some sort of retroactive pay for those of us who were training effective Jan 1 2016 8).
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Braun
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Re: Training Changes....

#23 Post by Braun » Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:00 pm

I am happy about the changes made but I am sceptical that it will improve the qualification rate significantly. Either way it's a good change for students to reduce the financial burden on them but I think we may run into some complacency issues with some students. We'll see!
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Training Changes....

#24 Post by AuxBatOn » Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:13 pm

If anything, it'll expand the pool of potential candidates, meaning there will be more potentially successful candidates. I just hope your selection is good enough to discriminate between those that have the potential to make it and those that don't.

I don't see how complacency could be an issue...
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Braun
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Re: Training Changes....

#25 Post by Braun » Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:24 pm

AuxBatOn wrote:If anything, it'll expand the pool of potential candidates, meaning there will be more potentially successful candidates. I just hope your selection is good enough to discriminate between those that have the potential to make it and those that don't.

I don't see how complacency could be an issue...
From the outside I see how it could be perceived as a non issue. I have the same hope as you regarding the selection process. I honestly don't think it is currently up to par. We are indeed improving the recruiting process but we are far away from something that I would consider suitable. We'll see what happens. Overall I am happy but I just hope the trend to improve the training system will continue and go beyond just paying trainees. Like I said, good for trainees but probably won't increase the success rate.
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