Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

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Civet
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Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#1 Post by Civet » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:41 pm

Wish I had found this forum during the recruitment process and training. What a wealth of information!

To my question - as the title states - I am curious what the standard is for this. I have a had a great relationship with my OJI throughout training, he was a fundamental part of my success. The continual time, patience, and in depth explanations of scenarios made it clear early on that the goal was to ensure I had every chance to check out. This is something I will be grateful for my whole career. I would like to give him a great gift to express my gratitude, but not so much as to be inappropriate. If anyone can offer insight to the realm $ wise I should be aiming for, I would appreciate that.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#2 Post by cdnpilot77 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:27 pm

In the past, I have given a nice bottle or 2 of wine (Amarone or Brunello)or a bottle of his/her spirit of choice or a gift card to a nice restaurant. Appreciation doesn't need to be over the top, just expressed.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#3 Post by RexKrammer » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:41 pm

I agree. The sentiment is the important thing. Find out his favourite tipple or restaurant. A decent bottle of scotch or some nice wine are good examples. If they don't drink, a gift card to somewhere like The Keg is oft appreciated.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#4 Post by Lloyd YWG FIC » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:50 pm

No gift required or expected. Shake his/her hand and remember how good of an OJI he/she was when you get your turn to be an OJI.

Lloyd YWG FIC (retired)
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#5 Post by Old Dog Flying » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:22 pm

I agree totally with Lloyd! An OJI is paid to train a new controller and a "Thank you for all of your help" is all that is expected.

BD YMJ, ZBB and a whole lot more.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#6 Post by AirFrame » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:55 am

Okay, I have to ask... What does OJI stand for?
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#7 Post by Lloyd YWG FIC » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:37 am

On Job Instructor. Both FSS and ATC have OJIs for the on the job training portion of qualification.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#8 Post by Driving Comet » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:00 am

I spent a lot of money at my checkout party. If my OJI wanted a gift he should have drank less that night :lol:
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#9 Post by AirFrame » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:14 am

Lloyd YWG FIC wrote:On Job Instructor.
Thanks. I knew it would be something simple like that. :)
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#10 Post by DanJ » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:02 pm

There are tons of jobs where "no gift is expected or required". Still a great sentiment to do so and I'm sure will be appreciated by the recipient.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#11 Post by Lloyd YWG FIC » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:21 pm

DanJ wrote:There are tons of jobs where "no gift is expected or required". Still a great sentiment to do so and I'm sure will be appreciated by the recipient.
Must be an ATC thing then because I ain't seen gifts to OJIs in any FSS unit I've worked at over my 35.5 years. Never. Maybe it's different in the last year since I retired but I doubt it.

BTW, if one is going to quote someone, the quote should be accurate.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#12 Post by DanJ » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:43 pm

Lloyd YWG FIC wrote:
BTW, if one is going to quote someone, the quote should be accurate.
Really? Because flipping the order of required and expected matters? If you never got a gift, maybe you displayed the same attitude at work as you do in this thread. Just because you never got a gift doesn't mean the OP shouldn't offer one. Sorry you are so miserable in retirement.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#13 Post by Lloyd YWG FIC » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:10 pm

What can I say, correctness and accuracy always matters. One of the things I always tried to point out to my trainees. You make an error, you raise your hand like a big boy, own up to it, learn from it, and try not to do it again.

As for gifts, the OP seems to think there is a "standard" for giving a gift to an OJI. Being an OJI is voluntary and the company compensates us well to do the job. A trainee owes the OJI nothing. If an OJI feels he/she should be 'tipped' for doing their job, they ought to work at The Keg. But like I said, maybe the ATC world is different.

BTW, OJIs was plural, I guess you missed that. And you err again, I am ecstatic being retired.

Have a nice day. Keep alert, watch for other aircraft.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#14 Post by Married a Canadian » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:24 pm

Must be the Brit in me, but I wouldn't give or expect a gift either as a trainee or as an OJI. We do have a different "tip" culture over there anyway.

Nothing "miserable" about it, NAV Canada compensates OJIs above their regular pay (ie you receive a premium), therefore it is their JOB to train to the best of their ability and knowledge. Why would you expect "more" for doing your job? A "thankyou" is more than enough.

BTW Some trainees are destined to check out no matter who their OJI is, so should the OJI buy them something nice for making them look good?
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#15 Post by Braun » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:38 am

I haven't seen anyone in ATC give their OJI a gift other than a beer eventually or a coffee. I wouldn't want/expect it as an OJI. The country is big and it may be different elsewhere.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#16 Post by RexKrammer » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:02 am

For me I felt it was the nice thing to do to get my OJI a bottle of a drink they like as a token of my gratitude for their help and coaching. They said it was totally not necessary, but appreciated the sentiment.
However, there were a few other controllers at the unit that demanded a check out party, and insisted that I pay for them to get drunk. It seems that idea is more common than an actual gift to the OJI. Personally I still think a gift to my OJI is more appropriate.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#17 Post by Braun » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:13 am

RexKrammer wrote:For me I felt it was the nice thing to do to get my OJI a bottle of a drink they like as a token of my gratitude for their help and coaching. They said it was totally not necessary, but appreciated the sentiment.
However, there were a few other controllers at the unit that demanded a check out party, and insisted that I pay for them to get drunk. It seems that idea is more common than an actual gift to the OJI. Personally I still think a gift to my OJI is more appropriate.
The beer call is in MATS...look it up. :lol: I really enjoy the beer call idea, mostly because it reunites people a few times a year and is usually a really good time.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#18 Post by Lloyd YWG FIC » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:12 am

Braun wrote: mostly because it reunites people a few times a year and is usually a really good time.
I wonder if that is a big difference between FSS and ATC. FSS are smaller units generally in smaller communities. Back in the pre-historic days, we worked and socialized with our co-workers a lot.

Also, given that back then we were paid almost from day one with all expenses in TCTI covered (including every third weekend home), the cost of a checkout party wasn't as onerous as it would be now for the current trainees. Heck, I don't even know what trainees get paid now but I know it ain't what I got. Not to mention that a large mug of draft beer in TCTI was $.55. :drinkers:
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#19 Post by Married a Canadian » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:44 am

I think the trainees now receive something like an annual salary of $30000...although this is VERY recent.

The "check out" party is still done at YYZ ACC. It is more heavily controlled than it was in the past. My year was actually the final straw...and a reason why I am less sympathetic to those that think the trainee actually owes the OJI anything. Circumstances lead to the "checkouts" having to shell out $1000 each towards the cost of the party (all food and beverage)....and at the time I was told it was all in the name of "tradition". Funny how tradition is OK if you aren't paying for it.

In the UK we had none of it, a simple thanks...and onward and upwards with the career. I never gave it a thought till I moved to Canada....didn't get it then, don't get it now. Horses for courses I suppose.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#20 Post by Braun » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:17 am

Lloyd YWG FIC wrote:
Braun wrote: mostly because it reunites people a few times a year and is usually a really good time.
I wonder if that is a big difference between FSS and ATC. FSS are smaller units generally in smaller communities. Back in the pre-historic days, we worked and socialized with our co-workers a lot.

Also, given that back then we were paid almost from day one with all expenses in TCTI covered (including every third weekend home), the cost of a checkout party wasn't as onerous as it would be now for the current trainees. Heck, I don't even know what trainees get paid now but I know it ain't what I got. Not to mention that a large mug of draft beer in TCTI was $.55. :drinkers:
Haha .55$ beer...impressive...sorry to say I probably wasn't born when you were there :) haha. ACC's can be weird places i've found. There are people you ''work with'' that you never really get to know because they are in other sub-units and often sub-unit conflicts don't help with that issue. The occasional beer call is always a good time i've found but I can see why some people don't like the idea.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#21 Post by Braun » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:17 am

Lloyd YWG FIC wrote:
Braun wrote: mostly because it reunites people a few times a year and is usually a really good time.
I wonder if that is a big difference between FSS and ATC. FSS are smaller units generally in smaller communities. Back in the pre-historic days, we worked and socialized with our co-workers a lot.

Also, given that back then we were paid almost from day one with all expenses in TCTI covered (including every third weekend home), the cost of a checkout party wasn't as onerous as it would be now for the current trainees. Heck, I don't even know what trainees get paid now but I know it ain't what I got. Not to mention that a large mug of draft beer in TCTI was $.55. :drinkers:
Haha .55$ beer...impressive...sorry to say I probably wasn't born when you were there :) haha. ACC's can be weird places i've found. There are people you ''work with'' that you never really get to know because they are in other sub-units and often sub-unit conflicts don't help with that issue. The occasional beer call is always a good time i've found but I can see why some people don't like the idea.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#22 Post by Lloyd YWG FIC » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:54 pm

Braun wrote:sorry to say I probably wasn't born when you were there :) haha.
Ya, somehow I'm getting the impression you ain't really all that sorry. :lol:
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#23 Post by Civet » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:14 pm

Thanks for the replies all. Though I must say I am a bit taken back by a few. I understand in certain situations there may be a generation, or culture gap, which may be to blame for differences in opinions on this, but I didn't expect such a polarized stance. I suppose I could have made my OP more clear, but I fully intend on purchasing a gift for my OJI. As I stated, he was fundamental in my success and I feel thrilled to express my gratitude for that. This was not something I felt as though was a tradition I needed to comply with, (as is a paying for a check-out party) but something I specifically wanted to do, and was looking into the possibility that this was indeed already a "tradition".

Yes, OJI's are paid extra for their time, and yes that's what they signed up for, but at the end of the day we can all agree there is a significant difference between an engaged and invested OJI and one who is not. Expressing gratitude in a more tangible form then a hand shake and fond words seems like it should be the standard and I am shocked that it is not. Someone who so clearly is a fundamental piece in any trainee's career, who can be instrumental in both success or failure. I see no reason as to why expressing gratitude for a positive relationship (and result) is unnecessary. It is impossible to say weather or not I, or any other trainee, would have checked out without their specific trainee/OJI relationship. As was mentioned earlier, I hope to "pay it forward" in the future to any potential trainee I may have, but in the mean time I can't be so cocky as to assume that I would have received a license no matter what OJI I may have had. Any other "He would have checked out regardless" circumstances are assumed, and the only result that is measurable is the specific positive one with that specific trainee and OJI. Offering a gift in acknowledgement of this I would have assumed standard.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#24 Post by yeah yeah » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:23 am

Civet, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you wrote. My personal guideline for initial checkout is to budget a gift equal to one day's overtime. Over a 25-35 year career, it's a drop in a very large bucket. For subsequent checkouts I buy a bottle of the nice stuff. My last checkout was shared between two OJIs equally and they each received a bottle of Dom Perignon. Again, it's a drop in a bucket.
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Re: Etiquette with gift to OJI upon checkout

#25 Post by Married a Canadian » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:54 am

Civet, I wouldn't be taken aback...it isn't personal or anything...it is just a viewpoint. I don't get the mentality that somehow an OJI is doing the trainee a favour by actually doing their job.
Yes, OJI's are paid extra for their time, and yes that's what they signed up for, but at the end of the day we can all agree there is a significant difference between an engaged and invested OJI and one who is not
If an OJI isn't invested in training, they shouldn't be an OJI. Why bother training at all if you don't want to or can't be bothered to help an ab initio?
Aviation isn't a service industry like hotels, restaurant's and pubs and the like. The annual salary especially at a centre is more than adequate remuneration. NAV Canada is paying their OJIs to do what you are praising them for.....if they aren't..then that says more about the OJI than it does either the trainee or NAV Canada.

I am not criticising the act of expressing gratitude, and showing thanks...but assuming that buying a gift or the like for an OJI earning $160 000 plus at an ACC should be standard?? Not in my case.
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