YYZ pilot questions

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OscarKilo
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Re: YYZ pilot questions

Post by OscarKilo »

skypirate88 wrote:
At what point does the decision get made to switch to CATII operations? Does it impact the operation that significantly if an aircraft requests such an approach?
We change when the ceiling drops below 200 or we get numerous missed approaches because of the weather

CAT1 ILS vectored spacing is 2.5-3miles in a dedicated land and 5-6 miles in a mixed mode

CAT2 ILS is 8-10 miles dedicated or 14-16 miles mixed mode

The reason being in dedicated the arrival must have exited the runway and be established on the parallel taxiway by the time the next arrival is at 4NM final, in mixed mode the departure has to have overflown the localizer by the time the arrival is 4NM final

Where a CAT1 approach the arrival needs to be off the runway pavement by the time the next arrival is at the threshold and in mixed mode the departure needs to be rolling when the arrival crosses 2Nm final
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Married a Canadian
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Re: YYZ pilot questions

Post by Married a Canadian »

I am just curious why the CATII wasn't being offered given the reports
The switch from CAT I to II/III is ALWAYS tough...and usually always ends up as confusing till an operation is established.
Not only does the cloud base get taken into account..but also the RVRs and whether they are trending lower or not. I was working the day in question, and at the time of the overshoots ALL of our minima were still above CAT II.

The minute we start advertising either CAT II or CAT III it will start restricting traffic, and there are also certain carriers that have different limits/minima who may or may not be able to conduct the approach. You can understand that if the weather limits aren't yet at our minima, we are reluctant to advertise...as we are then delaying...perhaps unnecessarily.
What happened on this day in question is that it took a few missed approaches for the weather and RVR to update, by this point we had aircraft in the arrival area who were unable to do the CAT II approach, or were able but needed the RVR to be above a certain level that was not being indicated at the time.

It is never straightforward to start with, we have our set minima for CAT II/III operations. We are aware that different aircraft and flight crew have their own minima in what they need to conduct an approach. It is best for us to set what we can and can't accept, then it is one size fits all....you can or you can't.
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skypirate88
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Re: YYZ pilot questions

Post by skypirate88 »

Thanks Oscarkilo and Married a Canadian. It is always nice to learn more about the job the folks on the other side of the radio do.

I was only looking at the fact that we nearly missed, and didn't even consider that there would be operators that potentially could not conduct the approach. I hope the tone of my question wasn't taken the wrong way.

Cheers. I appreciate the time you took to answer it for me.
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A mile of road will take you a mile, but a mile of runway can take you anywhere
ZBBYLW
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Re: YYZ pilot questions

Post by ZBBYLW »

Just curious what the purpose of "final approach" is. Yesterday arriving we were assigned final approach after already cleared the approach and all the controller did was hand us off to tower at The FAF. Seemed we were one of the few. Who went to final approach. We were relatively tight behind a DH8 but there was enough spacing for a DEP.
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cossack
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Re: YYZ pilot questions

Post by cossack »

Final approach is the ILS monitor position and their main job is to monitor the traffic alongside you rather than in front or behind. When visuals aren't possible then the monitor is required otherwise the approacbes need to be staggered. A Terminal specialist might be along with a fuller answer.
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Married a Canadian
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Re: YYZ pilot questions

Post by Married a Canadian »

Just curious what the purpose of "final approach" is
Cossack is correct, basically making sure the traffic on the adjacent approach does not wander off the their ILS or experience a false capture. "Monitor" is pretty much what we do.

Personally speaking I am not a fan when aircraft get switched to monitor within a couple of miles of the FAF (as it means you get two frequency changes in short order). Aircraft are supposed to be on ILS monitor (in IFR) within 15 miles of the airport and both aircraft are established on their respective ILS's.
Not much more to it really.
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plausiblyannonymous
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Re: YYZ pilot questions

Post by plausiblyannonymous »

wordstwice wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:36 am06R/24L can only be used when traffic demands it and there are enough personnel available (see above)
As a pilot myself, I was surprised to find out that it takes one controller to handle the runway and another controller to handle the aircraft taxiing between the 24L and 24R.
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cossack
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Re: YYZ pilot questions

Post by cossack »

plausiblyannonymous wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:54 pm As a pilot myself, I was surprised to find out that it takes one controller to handle the runway and another controller to handle the aircraft taxiing between the 24L and 24R.
Not correct. One controller is controlling all the traffic on and between both runways. The second controller is monitoring the frequency to ensure correct readbacks, compliance with instructions and operating the stopbars.
Never leave 118.35 until told to do so as tower will give routing instructions prior to the frequency change.
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NovaBoy
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Re: YYZ pilot questions

Post by NovaBoy »

For the most part I have had very little issues going in and out of YYZ over the last 20 plus years. Is it perfect, no, but what airport is. Controllers have been great to deal with. Thanks folks.
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