Phraseology: making requests with ATC

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grimey
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#1 Post by grimey » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:34 pm

Which one is better depends on how much info you're trying to pass on. Working at an FSS, if you're making a position report, or asking a simple question, go ahead and do it on the first call. If you're calling up for your advisory, and going on to what aircraft type you are, what apron you're on, which runway you're planning, destination, etc, etc, etc, make an initial call first.
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cyyz
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#2 Post by cyyz » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:34 pm

grimey wrote: Working at an FSS, if you're making a position report, or asking a simple question, go ahead and do it on the first call. .
"London Radio GXXX w/t position report at location XXX 30 miles from destination?"

You're kidding, right?

"....... with position report"
"....... with pirep"
"....... looking for w/x(sometimes if it's 1 place I'll add the location)"

FSS - "go ahead."

".............."

Maybe you guys are good, but usually when I call up, it's "hold" or "one second" or "say again" or "last a/c calling london."


As for ATC, usually, they can get it the first time, with simple requests.
1) "Centre, FABC, request FL230"
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#3 Post by lilfssister » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:44 pm

I assume grimey was talking aboout Airport Advisory FSS rather than FIC.
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#4 Post by TFE731 » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:04 pm

lilfssister wrote:I assume grimey was talking aboout Airport Advisory FSS rather than FIC.
Maybe he was, but nonetheless the same holds true and can be applied for talking to an FIC.
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#5 Post by bigfssguy » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:37 pm

I'm with grimey. If it is something simple and quick then just say it and 99% of the time we will get it. If you are looking for something more complex then make an initial call. Pilots have to realize that in an an FSS we are doing more than just hovering over the radio waiting for someone to call we have a lot of things going on in the tower, most know this and are patient but there is the one pilot from time to time who will make a call and 10 seconds later will call again. Meanwhile we are on with center or the vehicle frequency or putting weather in and it takes us that much longer to get to the pilot because they stepped on the vehicle or we have to ask the Controller to repeat. This is even more critical in the FIC's since usually the FSS you are talking to on the enroute frequency is working somewhere between 10-20 frequencies not to mention doing the VFR flight following for there area. Patience is the key, if we ask you to repeat then there is usually a good reason. It's not be cause we are incompetent, honestly i swear it!
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#6 Post by cyyz » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:06 am

bigfssguy wrote: Patience is the key, if we ask you to repeat then there is usually a good reason. It's not be cause we are incompetent, honestly i swear it!
I know...
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#7 Post by Raydar » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:01 am

If the controller is or was just talking on the radio he/she is most likely still listening. but remember that there is a lot of behind the scenes work going on with co-ordination that keeps them busy. Calling with a request is a good idea to get the controllers attention if freq has been quiet for a while.
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grimey
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#8 Post by grimey » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:44 am

cyyz wrote:
grimey wrote: Working at an FSS, if you're making a position report, or asking a simple question, go ahead and do it on the first call. .
"London Radio GXXX w/t position report at location XXX 30 miles from destination?"

You're kidding, right?

"....... with position report"
"....... with pirep"
"....... looking for w/x(sometimes if it's 1 place I'll add the location)"

FSS - "go ahead."

And does it take any longer in that case than if you make an initial call? No, it's the same as cpl_atc's example of why an initial call isn't required for short calls. The point is that you're certainly not saving any time by making the initial call for simple requests or info. You might spend the same amount of time on the radio, but no less.

And if I tell you to hold for wx, it's probably because I'm looking it up.

edit: and yea, I was talking about an AAS site. An FIC would be different due to the number of aircraft and the nature of the calls. At an AAS, if you're making a position report, I'm likely talking to you already, same goes for pireps.
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Last edited by grimey on Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#9 Post by Disco Stu » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:33 am

How about requesting something and being told "cleared as requested"?

Or being cleared for a contact approach before you even request it.

2 very common things in MB.
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#10 Post by IFRATC » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:37 pm

Cpl_atc,
I disagree with your last post. In most busy sectors "cleared as requested" is used often to save time. Mind you it depends on the complexity of the request as well. I don't think ANY controller would get their Pee-pee slapped for using phraseology that is in MANOPS. No Board of Inquiry can nail you for using standard and approved phraseology. Whatever incident may result from this type of exchange would be scrutinized but not the language you used to grant the clearance.
The fact of the matter is that in very busy sectors such as where I work, it is used often because we have too. if I understand the nature and routing of a request I will use "cleared as requested" always. I don't have time to issue a full clearance and wait for a proper readback to something that has been requested and initiated by the pilot in the first place.

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#11 Post by ahramin » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:45 pm

I hear cleared as requested often out of YEG enroute and never had a problem with it.
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#12 Post by Disco Stu » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:55 pm

Is cleared as requested approved phraseology in the MANOPS?
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#13 Post by FamilyGuy » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:37 pm

Yes and technically ... no. The actual approved phrase is "via requested routing" however "cleared as requested" means the same thing. Only works for routes, not altitudes, or holds :shock: :wink:

You'd have to be pretty anal with too much time on your hands for that one........

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#14 Post by Pygmie » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:46 pm

Although cleared to hold as requested has been known to appear on frequency from time to time. . .
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#15 Post by FamilyGuy » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:57 pm

Not very "refreshing"....
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