Arrival for medivac.(YWG)

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flyinhigh
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Arrival for medivac.(YWG)

Post by flyinhigh » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:13 am

Not here to hound guys and girls by any means.

This happened the other night, not a big deal by any means but it's been in my head since.
We filed medivac in YWG 2 nights ago, now when I file as medivac its a priority(code 4, get outta the way). Now when were filed as medivac we take presidence over everything else do we not?, this night the arrival controller even though we filed medivac asked if we were priority, to which we are, I filed it that way.
Now why would I be asked that? I found it weird.
Do companies actually file medivac and aren't actually priority or what?
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Pygmie
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Post by Pygmie » Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:17 pm

You might be supprised how many times that question is asked of Medivac flights and the answer is, "negative, we're not priority today."
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hydro
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Post by hydro » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:36 pm

Are you normally based out of Ontario?

There was a thread on this back in the day, and it seems that in Manitoba you'll have many non-priority medevacs, hence there you will get asked. While in Ontario its generally only for code 4 calls and you will less likely be asked. I thought it was a Medcom thing (vs whatever the equivalent is in Manitoba) for the difference in standard.

hydro
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charlie_g
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Post by charlie_g » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:44 pm

As far as the ATC regulations are concerned, there is no distinction made between a "medevac" vs. a "priority medevac", etc. I.e. as far as priority over other aircraft is concerned, you are either a medevac, or you aren't.

I do not give someone calling themselves a "priority" medevac any more or less priority than a 'simple' medevac for this reason. In both cases, you will be afforded the priority as laid out in ATC manops:

1) aircraft in a state of emergency
2) aircraft that appears to be in a state of emergency
3) Medevac flights
4) Rescue flights (SAR)
5) PM, Queen, Heads of State
6) Regular flights
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flyinhigh
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Post by flyinhigh » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:47 pm

Thanks charlie,

hydro wrote:Are you normally based out of Ontario?
Yes, we are based outta ontario
Also Medcom doesn't determine wether were medivac or not, they tell us if is code 1,2,3 or 4, BLS, or ALS. When we file medivac if were code 3 or 4, our guys will usually ask the medics if we are priority on this call and than file accordingly as to what they tell us.
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CD
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Post by CD » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:15 pm

hydro wrote:There was a thread on this back in the day...
Here is one of them - goes for about 4 pages...

skyward medevac
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Re: Arrival for medivac.(YWG)

Post by lexx » Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:27 am

flyinhigh wrote:Do companies actually file medivac and aren't actually priority or what?
In an odd way, yes.

In Ontario we have these orange government run medivac helicopters buzzing around from place to place. For convienience they are given a squawk code that they keep, and use all the time. Any controller who has his radar filtered down to ground level as the norm, knows the idents they use. Although they show the same tag information on radar, sometimes they're medivac, sometimes they're not. Sometimes they say "medivac", sometimes they don't, and are.

I ask.
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Jerricho
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Post by Jerricho » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:27 pm

Just to further Hydro's post, I have lost count of the number of Medevacs I have asked on first contact "Are you requiring priority" to be told no.......especially when situations arise where more than one Med are on the frequency.

We don't get any indication other than Status-Medevac on our flight progress strips, hence our asking.
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Post by Jex0 » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:36 am

Yeah, i absolutely agree with you :) :)
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charlie_g
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Post by charlie_g » Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:31 am

Reference my earlier post regarding the fact that there is no distinction whatsoever in ATC regulations regarding priority levels within medevac status... This is probably something that the system should look at -- clarification among operators.

As far as ATC is concerned, it is redundant to call yourself a medevac if your specific flight does not require priority. If you do not require priority service for the patient/flight, do not call yourself a medevac.

The entire point of the term/status is rendered useless otherwise.
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spongebob
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Post by spongebob » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:05 pm

I always call myself a medevac when I have a patient on board. Usually, it's because when I file the flight plan, I do not know the extent of the patient's injuries or complications. I will cancel the medevac status once in the air if there is no way that the patient's condition could worsen. If there is a slight possibility that the patient might crash, I keep the medevac status. I don't want anything happening on my airplane so I want to get to my destination as fast as possible and transfer the patient to an ambulance.
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Flying Low
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Post by Flying Low » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:36 pm

Although I understand spongebobs logic I don't really agree with it. If this were done with land ambulances then they would go everywhere with lights and sirens except for the most mundane patients.

I rarely file medevac unless given a heads up by the medics. Upgrading my status to medevac is as easy as telling ATC and they have always accomodated me (including getting permission to break the 200kt speed limit and even offering to shut down departures off Pearson while we went by). I've upgraded my status at any point as required from calling for clearance to anywhere enroute.
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charlie_g
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Post by charlie_g » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:41 am

Flying Low wrote:Although I understand spongebobs logic I don't really agree with it. If this were done with land ambulances then they would go everywhere with lights and sirens except for the most mundane patients.

I rarely file medevac unless given a heads up by the medics. Upgrading my status to medevac is as easy as telling ATC...
That is definitely the correct way to do it. Unless you know for a fact at the time of filing that the flight will require medevac priority, you should wait. Otherwise ATC is making planning changes, possibly delaying a/c, changing departure sequences, etc, etc, only to find out the priority is not required.

If you need to upgrade at any point during the flight, or when calling up and looking for clearance, it is as simple as saying so to ATC. Obviously if you`ve already been sequenced as number 6 by terminal when you make that decision, it`ll be too late, but otherwise you`ll be accomodated.

In the meantime, Flying Low`s siren-and-lights-everywhere analogy is a very good one.
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Doc
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Post by Doc » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:27 am

I've been vectored to follow a "medevac" several times just to arrive on the ramp in time to see the patient from the "medevac" WALK out of the aircraft with his arm in a sling...or less.
Point is....if you are not a priority medevac....dont file as one! If you do, you should buy the controller, and the crews of the aircraft he vectored, several beers!
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zzjayca
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Post by zzjayca » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:24 am

Definition from ATC Manops:

MEDEVAC:
A term used to request Air Traffic Service priority handling
for a medical evacuation flight, based on a medical
emergency in the transport of patients, organ donors,
organs or other urgently needed lifesaving medical
material. The term is to be used on flight plans and if a
pilot determines that a priority is required in
radiotelephony communications.

Notice it states:
"based on a medical emergency"

If it isn't an emergency, you shouldn't be using the term MEDEVAC.

It also states:
"is to be used on flight plans and if a pilot determines
that a priority is required in radiotelephony communications."


The most important part of this paragraph is "and....priority is required". Not only does the aircraft have to be transporting a patient or other medical material, priority must also be required, otherwise the term MEDEVAC should not be used. If the word "and" was changed to "or" then you could rightly call yourself MEDEVAC any time you were transporting patients.

It's not hard to upgrade your status. All that is required is:

Pilot: "Center ABC"
ATC: "ABC go ahead"
Pilot: "Center ABC is now a MEDEVAC"
ATC: "Roger"

It ain't rocket science.
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FREEFALL
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Post by FREEFALL » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:02 pm

zzjayca wrote:It ain't rocket science.

Apparently it is for some people
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ahramin
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Post by ahramin » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:12 pm

This has been hashed many times here and yes in some provinces everyone files medevac while in others only medevac flights can file medevac.

Many pilots always file medevac because when doing so you do not need to go through the arrival gates and going out you do not have to miss them. Direct everywhere is pretty handy especially for the old guys who only know how to push the D button :).
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