Nav Canadas new radar system kaput

The Velvet Fog · Post by **The Velvet Fog** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:22 am

I'm sensing that you're not impressed with it

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:54 am

.........

lexx · Post by **lexx** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:18 pm

While the reality may be that CAATS is more labour intensive, latest rumour has Nav Canada going full bore ahead with this in Toronto, and the perception from very high up is that the system when fully implemented will be very labour saving.

Labour saving to the point of cutting back on hiring now, and just hiring to maintain the status quo.

Just a rumour mind you.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:17 am

Just to let you know Lexx, a group of SMEs from YWG are off to Ottawa on Monday for preliminary testing of software updates for the system. Now, as to what has been "updated:, we will see.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:52 am

I may have missed someone posting this

But both QX and QM have CAATS up and operational for quite some time now at least in its current state.

YWG must not have wanted to work through the issues I suppose?

greykin · Post by **greykin** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:19 pm

av8rpei wrote:I may have missed someone posting this

But both QX and QM have CAATS up and operational for quite some time now at least in its current state.

YWG must not have wanted to work through the issues I suppose?

QX and QM do not handle the same type of traffic as YWG. A fraction of the low-level stuff, no use of flight itineraries, no altitudes until the handoff (???), etc. They were using about 20% of CAATS' functionality, so nobody realized what a piece of crap the rest of the system was.

We spent 40 days "working through the issues" in YWG, and just about every moment was a pain in the ass, right up until the point where the system crashed and most screens went red, so watch your tone "trainee".

Pygmie · Post by **Pygmie** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:45 pm

av8rpei wrote:I may have missed someone posting this

But both QX and QM have CAATS up and operational for quite some time now at least in its current state.

YWG must not have wanted to work through the issues I suppose?

Yes, and QM took over 2 YEARS to implement it, and pulled it out a few times as well when it crashed.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:59 am

av8rpei wrote:YWG must not have wanted to work through the issues I suppose?

Are you feckin serious???

Don't be such a wanker.

As one of the SMEs on the project, I can tell you the staff at YWG ACC all deserve huge pats on the back for the effort that went in to the ORD. Ask your SMEs that were out here to help (Hey Cliffy!

) just what was going on. Also, ask them what has been added to CAATS that once the software has been certified will be taken east to update the version out there.

Raydar · Post by **Raydar** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:36 am

When navcanada took over the ANS from Transport Canada, transport was working on developing CAATS. In the takeover process NC had to agree to continue to research and implement CAATS. It has turned out to be a costly agreement. The problem is they are contractually obligated by TC to implement the system. So until TC releases them from this obligation they will continue to work on it.

greykin · Post by **greykin** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:46 am

Raydar wrote:When navcanada took over the ANS from Transport Canada, transport was working on developing CAATS. In the takeover process NC had to agree to continue to research and implement CAATS. It has turned out to be a costly agreement. The problem is they are contractually obligated by TC to implement the system. So until TC releases them from this obligation they will continue to work on it.

Amazing how costly something can be when you take system requirements, design the system, subsequently change the interface (no touch screens) and then get a bunch of retarded people to try and put the square peg into a round hole. Unfortunately, (and by definition) retarded people cannot see the problem with this approach.

It's coming back to Winnipeg on Sept 9th. Stand by for delays and lost flight plans...

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:09 pm

..........

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:12 pm

greykin wrote:
av8rpei wrote:I may have missed someone posting this

But both QX and QM have CAATS up and operational for quite some time now at least in its current state.

YWG must not have wanted to work through the issues I suppose?
QX and QM do not handle the same type of traffic as YWG. A fraction of the low-level stuff, no use of flight itineraries, no altitudes until the handoff (???), etc. They were using about 20% of CAATS' functionality, so nobody realized what a piece of crap the rest of the system was.

We spent 40 days "working through the issues" in YWG, and just about every moment was a pain in the ass, right up until the point where the system crashed and most screens went red, so watch your tone "trainee".

Try not to be so defensive, I wasn't trying to take a crack at any YWG staff or controllers, I just heard about the issues on-going in YWG, and I can understand why staff would not want to work in an environment where the system is crashing all the time, it would make for a dread to come to work if it was degrading that often.

So are you saying they were trying to implement CAATS in it's 100% functionality in YWG? I may have misunderstood your post.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:14 pm

greykin wrote:
It's coming back to Winnipeg on Sept 9th. Stand by for delays and lost flight plans...

Whats is their gameplan for better implementation this time? Or have they hopefully worked out the bugs?

One more question about your previous post regarding Moncton and Gander, you said: ", no altitudes until the handoff (???)"

Not exactly sure what that is in reference to, just curious. Thanks.

greykin2 · Post by **greykin2** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:11 pm

av8rpei wrote:
greykin wrote:
It's coming back to Winnipeg on Sept 9th. Stand by for delays and lost flight plans...
Whats is their gameplan for better implementation this time? Or have they hopefully worked out the bugs?

One more question about your previous post regarding Moncton and Gander, you said: ", no altitudes until the handoff (???)"

Not exactly sure what that is in reference to, just curious. Thanks.

CAATS in YWG (round #2) now delayed til Sept 30th.

What sectors between Gander and Moncton do not pass altitude information until the handoff? Oceanic I guess. It was because of that procedure that some CAATS deficiencies were not caught until the YWG deployment.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:43 pm

.......

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:54 pm

greykin2 wrote:
av8rpei wrote:
greykin wrote:
It's coming back to Winnipeg on Sept 9th. Stand by for delays and lost flight plans...
Whats is their gameplan for better implementation this time? Or have they hopefully worked out the bugs?

One more question about your previous post regarding Moncton and Gander, you said: ", no altitudes until the handoff (???)"

Not exactly sure what that is in reference to, just curious. Thanks.
CAATS in YWG (round #2) now delayed til Sept 30th.

What sectors between Gander and Moncton do not pass altitude information until the handoff? Oceanic I guess. It was because of that procedure that some CAATS deficiencies were not caught until the YWG deployment.

Gander and Moncton Domestic passes altitudes automatically, Oceanic gets flight plan information from a hard-copy flight plan, with time updates from a different system, with times inputted by domestic controllers for ocean coast out fixes.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:35 am

.........

squibbler · Post by **squibbler** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:13 pm

Postponed 'til 30th September. Shame....that's the first of my 3 days off. Damn!! Wish I could be there.........

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:18 pm

Holy sh*t Squib........don't hold back wit the animated opinion mate.

squibbler · Post by **squibbler** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:49 am

I've had a bad 5 days Jerr mate. Water-bombers and fire fighting helicopters everywhere! Plus the new Confedation College students have started flying. 3 days off now....sweet! I feel better already