Question for the YMM FSS
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
Question for the YMM FSS
What's the general feel about the recent announcement? Are any of the current staff hoping to x-train or are you all awaiting your ticket outbound?
-
- Rank 4
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:07 pm
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
Well I can't speak for them of course, but I'd be SHOCKED if ANY of the FSS turn down cross training. Not getting into VFR at such a chance would be a fool's choice.
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
While I completely understand that frame of mind, I'm wondering if they're weighing that against the uhhh... 'joy' of living in YMM with its long winters and mega-expensive real estate market. We've all heard the horror stories, I'm sure.
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
unless some of them don't want to be controllers.
no sig because apparently quoting people in context is offensive to them.
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
On principle? LOL
I think you'd be hard pressed to find an FSS who wouldn't accept some retraining for a 50-100% pay raise and reduced hours.
But my question remains... how is actually working there?
I think you'd be hard pressed to find an FSS who wouldn't accept some retraining for a 50-100% pay raise and reduced hours.
But my question remains... how is actually working there?
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
I'd probably turn it down, I like my job just fine as is.
no sig because apparently quoting people in context is offensive to them.
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
LOL
well. good for you.
now anybody here from YMM?
well. good for you.
now anybody here from YMM?
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
LWTwr wrote:On principle? LOL
I think you'd be hard pressed to find an FSS who wouldn't accept some retraining for a 50-100% pay raise and reduced hours.
But my question remains... how is actually working there?
I don't think it would be a 50% - 100% pay raise. Most FSS base salary is 50K-75K ish. Definately a raise but if it ends up a low grade tower which it likely will it may be a step sideways pay wise in YMM as opposed to a step up.
FSS: puting the Service back in Flight Services....
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
just more pay improvement opportunities in the long run. If it wasn't in such a shitty place it would be interesting. A growing area, lots of IFR, soon to have a new terminal and another runway. They aren't building a lot of new runways these days.
As the Yale admissions officer on the Simpsons said: We could use an international airport.
Burns: You think I'm made of airports?! Get out of here!
As the Yale admissions officer on the Simpsons said: We could use an international airport.
Burns: You think I'm made of airports?! Get out of here!
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
Exactly like Sulako said, low grade towers and FSS are paid similar amounts but the top end of ATC is exponentially higher than FSS.
FSS: puting the Service back in Flight Services....
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
My last year in a Grade 1 tower I pulled in 90k with a lil' overtime and I've only got 4 years in. I had no idea FSS were making that kind of money. I'll be sure to mention that in our next round of negotiations.bigfssguy wrote:Exactly like Sulako said, low grade towers and FSS are paid similar amounts but the top end of ATC is exponentially higher than FSS.
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
LWTwr wrote:My last year in a Grade 1 tower I pulled in 90k with a lil' overtime and I've only got 4 years in. I had no idea FSS were making that kind of money. I'll be sure to mention that in our next round of negotiations.bigfssguy wrote:Exactly like Sulako said, low grade towers and FSS are paid similar amounts but the top end of ATC is exponentially higher than FSS.
Where's your smiley face at the end of your last sentence? Oh, don't worry. You still make more money than us. You think the ex AI's in upper management would ever let us catch up? Although I did make more than you last year, but I've also been in 3 times longer. I hope that's not upsetting???
Read you 2 by 2. Too loud and too often!
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
Im made more last year too, except i have t live in the north for it!!
FSS: puting the Service back in Flight Services....
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
I was just reading your contract and had a question LWtwr. You said you made 90K at an AI1 tower. According to your contract as of april 1/08 a person with 4 years seniority would make a base salary 65,434$ with an OFP of 1035$. More than my base for sure but where does the rest come from. I know i make a few thousand a year from shift differential and holidays but nothing much. Where do you make up the rest of the difference.
FSS: puting the Service back in Flight Services....
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
bigfssguy wrote:LWTwr wrote:On principle? LOL
I think you'd be hard pressed to find an FSS who wouldn't accept some retraining for a 50-100% pay raise and reduced hours.
But my question remains... how is actually working there?
I don't think it would be a 50% - 100% pay raise. Most FSS base salary is 50K-75K ish. Definately a raise but if it ends up a low grade tower which it likely will it may be a step sideways pay wise in YMM as opposed to a step up.
Makes you wonder if there is any cost savings with closing CYSB tower. You guys can't have it both ways. Some of you have been arguing in the other thread that because FSS make so much less than ATC, closing the CYSB tower is a big cost savings. And now you are saying a low grade tower, and a high grade FSS make about the same amount. Which is it?
I would hazard to guess that CYSB would be a high grade FSS. Maybe there is no savings in salary only a degradation of efficiency.
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
Top increment FSS at a grade 3 site is $65,814 with no OFB compared to top increment Grade 1 tower which is just over $84,000 + OFB. FSS also operate single stand at different times and provide weather obs (no more weather contract).Makes you wonder if there is any cost savings with closing CYSB tower. You guys can't have it both ways. Some of you have been arguing in the other thread that because FSS make so much less than ATC, closing the CYSB tower is a big cost savings. And now you are saying a low grade tower, and a high grade FSS make about the same amount. Which is it?
I would hazard to guess that CYSB would be a high grade FSS. Maybe there is no savings in salary only a degradation of efficiency.
These are all base salaries. Both would be subject to overtime with CATCA members all ot 2x and ATSAC members 1.5x first day, then 2x.
Read you 2 by 2. Too loud and too often!
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
zzjayca wrote:bigfssguy wrote:LWTwr wrote:On principle? LOL
I think you'd be hard pressed to find an FSS who wouldn't accept some retraining for a 50-100% pay raise and reduced hours.
But my question remains... how is actually working there?
I don't think it would be a 50% - 100% pay raise. Most FSS base salary is 50K-75K ish. Definately a raise but if it ends up a low grade tower which it likely will it may be a step sideways pay wise in YMM as opposed to a step up.
Makes you wonder if there is any cost savings with closing CYSB tower. You guys can't have it both ways. Some of you have been arguing in the other thread that because FSS make so much less than ATC, closing the CYSB tower is a big cost savings. And now you are saying a low grade tower, and a high grade FSS make about the same amount. Which is it?
I would hazard to guess that CYSB would be a high grade FSS. Maybe there is no savings in salary only a degradation of efficiency.
Touche!!
FSS tends to be cheaper since we require less bodies to staff a facility 24hrs plus you can get rid of the contract weather since we do it. Salaries are reasonably comparable though senior ATC will make considerably more than us. What i'm getting at is it takes 7-8 FSS to run a place 24 hours vs. 8-9 controllers part time and a CWO. Less bodies mean less money.
FSS: puting the Service back in Flight Services....
-
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 2783
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:51 pm
- Location: Mysteryville Castle
- GilletteNorth
- Rank 7
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:09 pm
- Location: throw a dart dead center of Saskatchewan
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
I can't understand why you're asking:
Actually, if it were me, I'd do it in a heartbeat... the extra pay will relieve stress related to housing costs + OFB + now being able to tell an aircraft to fly heading 090 and get the hell outta my airspace when it messes around, sweetness.
The FSS are there in place, have their housing situation already in order, have experienced the long winters and 'survived' ... only question is, do they want to go over to the 'dark side'.While I completely understand that frame of mind, I'm wondering if they're weighing that against the uhhh... 'joy' of living in YMM with its long winters and mega-expensive real estate market.
Actually, if it were me, I'd do it in a heartbeat... the extra pay will relieve stress related to housing costs + OFB + now being able to tell an aircraft to fly heading 090 and get the hell outta my airspace when it messes around, sweetness.
Having a standard that pilots lose their licence after making a mistake despite doing no harm to aircraft or passengers means soon you needn't worry about a pilot surplus or pilots offering to fly for free. Where do you get your experience from?
Re: Question for the YMM FSS
Just remember a few things about the FSS's in YMM.
First, the company will have to move any who do not wish to cross over. That means all expenses are covered to change locations. I don't know which locations would be available, but anyplace might be more attractive than YMM. If an FSS person owns a house/condo, they could do very well by selling now and moving.
Second, FSS does not require a medical, so out of the 11 (number I heard at work) in YMM, some may not be able to cross over.
Third, it is quite a different skill/mind set to change from FSS to VFR Controller. I know personally of at least 2 who could not change over. 1 friend from my original VFR course tried YZF tower, couldn't do it, went back to NCTI for FSS training and qualified there as FSS. 3 years later, YZF wanted him back in the tower, but after 3 months it was very evident that he couldn't control.
I am making a sweet wild ass guess that out of the 11 specialist I think that we may get 5 staying and be able to cross over.
NAVCANADA has sent us out an email that says it wants the tower open in under 6 months operating under limited hours. They also want to relocate some controllers up there, but they are going to have a real bitch of a time finding volunteers to move up there. It will most likely be an ATC-2 tower, no northern benifits, and I highly doubt they will even offer subsidized housing. They could try having Ab-Initios sent there straight from TCTI, but the basic training wage is just over 30000$/year. I can just picture some young trainee sitting in a bar in YMM, barely surviving on that kind of money there, and being bought drinks from buddies bragging about making 3 times that driving trucks. How long would it take you to say "Screw this!". NAVCANADA has a serious problem about being able to staff this tower.
Just my 2.5 cents.
Rob Benusic
CYEG Tower
First, the company will have to move any who do not wish to cross over. That means all expenses are covered to change locations. I don't know which locations would be available, but anyplace might be more attractive than YMM. If an FSS person owns a house/condo, they could do very well by selling now and moving.
Second, FSS does not require a medical, so out of the 11 (number I heard at work) in YMM, some may not be able to cross over.
Third, it is quite a different skill/mind set to change from FSS to VFR Controller. I know personally of at least 2 who could not change over. 1 friend from my original VFR course tried YZF tower, couldn't do it, went back to NCTI for FSS training and qualified there as FSS. 3 years later, YZF wanted him back in the tower, but after 3 months it was very evident that he couldn't control.
I am making a sweet wild ass guess that out of the 11 specialist I think that we may get 5 staying and be able to cross over.
NAVCANADA has sent us out an email that says it wants the tower open in under 6 months operating under limited hours. They also want to relocate some controllers up there, but they are going to have a real bitch of a time finding volunteers to move up there. It will most likely be an ATC-2 tower, no northern benifits, and I highly doubt they will even offer subsidized housing. They could try having Ab-Initios sent there straight from TCTI, but the basic training wage is just over 30000$/year. I can just picture some young trainee sitting in a bar in YMM, barely surviving on that kind of money there, and being bought drinks from buddies bragging about making 3 times that driving trucks. How long would it take you to say "Screw this!". NAVCANADA has a serious problem about being able to staff this tower.
Just my 2.5 cents.
Rob Benusic
CYEG Tower