Recruiting process for ATC
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
Has anyone who took the testing in Moncton back in January hear anything yet?
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
Didn't qualify. It doesn't tell me where my strengths or weaknesses are just that I didn't qualify. From what I remember the competition was quite stiff (8 Slots v. 40 people if I remember correctly).
I'm going to try and find out why they made that decision and re-apply in a year.
Back to the ramp for me....
I'm going to try and find out why they made that decision and re-apply in a year.
Back to the ramp for me....
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
I did the phone interview a month ago and got the green pass dot on the website, has anyone got a call for the final interview yet in the Edmonton area??
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
That's too bad, Cam. Hope you get some clarification and pass next time.
I got the green light so hopefully I hear about an interview. If I remember right, they talked about an April start date too. That's pretty soon if the results are just coming back now.
I got the green light so hopefully I hear about an interview. If I remember right, they talked about an April start date too. That's pretty soon if the results are just coming back now.
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
Passed the YVR test... So how quickly does the call come?
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
Just wondering...
Do you get the green dot by simply completing the first interview or do you have to pass it in order to get the green dot?
btw, congrats skywolfe!
Do you get the green dot by simply completing the first interview or do you have to pass it in order to get the green dot?
btw, congrats skywolfe!
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
Here is my story
At my first testing session with SHL in july 2007 i thought i did very well but couldn't make it to the interview level WHY i didn't know. Spend more than a year and a half researching different sources and books to study the type of test SHL uses and the way they are graded. After alot of research i found alot of good material that I studied so badly.. every day.. waiting for the day to do a second exam.. so that i can nail it. This year.. i went for the testing session again and with the new testing process.. all the exams were changed. no more spatial reasoning , diagramming, data checking or numerical estimation. This year.. just simple crap, so all the practise i did in the last year and a half gone in vain.This year they ask you questions like what is the similarity between dream works production and a novel and things like who invented the phone and also expect you to know the whole dictionary and history. Funny right!!!
I must say SHL groups test and FAA, AT SAT test in USA makes alot more sense.. since they check the ability that is required for the Air traffic controller's job. Nav Canada new recruitment process is a total failure, this type of exam will let only those people do better who are good in vocabulary, history and general knowledge and none of these is required for the job.
For example if i am good in spatial, estimation, radars, data and ATC terminology, i will spend at least 15 seconds on one problem to get the right answer where as the person good in vocabulary history and general knowledge will spend the same time to answer up to 10 questions!!! This is the reason why people who deserve the job are getting kicked out right in the begining and people who do not..deserve go to the interview level and then fail because they don't have the key skill. two and three dimensional view ability .
In USA AT SAT exams has a 70% passing grade and 85 % well deserved but with Nav canada they don't even do a percentile to check the average score so, even though i scored 85 % anyone who has 86% is accepted before me which means there is no passing grade. STUPID
I know i sound pretty angry and that is because i am. I ve been waiting to get this job for last 3 years and still hoping that next year i will get it.
If anyone reading this feels that i have said something that has hurt them please forgive me but one is for sure if our future controllers are checked on History, Vocabulary and general knowledge.. i am guessing that the Air traffic controllers will sound something like this:
AC786: Dorval clearance delivery this is AC786 ready to copy IFR to toronto pearson Intl.
clearance delivery: AC786 you are cleared to copy and paste! IFR to toronto pearson Intl, contact ground on 121.30 when ready for taxing.
AC786: Roger,
AC786: Dorval ground this is AC786 ready for taxing IFR to toronto pearson Intl.
Dorval Ground: AC786 you are cleared to taxi to runway 24 L via AM A A4. Contact Dorval tower when ready for take off, but are you sure your Boing 747 will fit in a TAXI!!!
AC786 : What? whatever!!!
AC786: Dorval tower AC786 holding short runway 24 L ready to go IFR departure to toronto pearson Intl.
Dorval Tower: AC786 you are cleared for take off runway 24 L winds calm. please make sure you are out of the taxi before taking off. Taxi is not cleared for take off with you.
AC786: What roger roger
Dorval Tower: AC786 contact Montreal departure on 514 777 8888 now
AC786: Bloody hell who gave you my wife's cell number.
Dorval Tower: sorry sorry correction. Departure controller is new so you wife is next to him helping him out so it is better idea to contact her. The controller is not aware of the unroute terminology yet....
AC786: sir, what can we expect from the en route controller then.. ???
Dorval Tower: Well, he is really good in History, Vocabulary and general knowledge he can definately tell you which historical building of the city is the oldest to crash you god dam Boing 747!!!!!!! on
At my first testing session with SHL in july 2007 i thought i did very well but couldn't make it to the interview level WHY i didn't know. Spend more than a year and a half researching different sources and books to study the type of test SHL uses and the way they are graded. After alot of research i found alot of good material that I studied so badly.. every day.. waiting for the day to do a second exam.. so that i can nail it. This year.. i went for the testing session again and with the new testing process.. all the exams were changed. no more spatial reasoning , diagramming, data checking or numerical estimation. This year.. just simple crap, so all the practise i did in the last year and a half gone in vain.This year they ask you questions like what is the similarity between dream works production and a novel and things like who invented the phone and also expect you to know the whole dictionary and history. Funny right!!!
I must say SHL groups test and FAA, AT SAT test in USA makes alot more sense.. since they check the ability that is required for the Air traffic controller's job. Nav Canada new recruitment process is a total failure, this type of exam will let only those people do better who are good in vocabulary, history and general knowledge and none of these is required for the job.
For example if i am good in spatial, estimation, radars, data and ATC terminology, i will spend at least 15 seconds on one problem to get the right answer where as the person good in vocabulary history and general knowledge will spend the same time to answer up to 10 questions!!! This is the reason why people who deserve the job are getting kicked out right in the begining and people who do not..deserve go to the interview level and then fail because they don't have the key skill. two and three dimensional view ability .
In USA AT SAT exams has a 70% passing grade and 85 % well deserved but with Nav canada they don't even do a percentile to check the average score so, even though i scored 85 % anyone who has 86% is accepted before me which means there is no passing grade. STUPID
I know i sound pretty angry and that is because i am. I ve been waiting to get this job for last 3 years and still hoping that next year i will get it.
If anyone reading this feels that i have said something that has hurt them please forgive me but one is for sure if our future controllers are checked on History, Vocabulary and general knowledge.. i am guessing that the Air traffic controllers will sound something like this:
AC786: Dorval clearance delivery this is AC786 ready to copy IFR to toronto pearson Intl.
clearance delivery: AC786 you are cleared to copy and paste! IFR to toronto pearson Intl, contact ground on 121.30 when ready for taxing.
AC786: Roger,
AC786: Dorval ground this is AC786 ready for taxing IFR to toronto pearson Intl.
Dorval Ground: AC786 you are cleared to taxi to runway 24 L via AM A A4. Contact Dorval tower when ready for take off, but are you sure your Boing 747 will fit in a TAXI!!!
AC786 : What? whatever!!!
AC786: Dorval tower AC786 holding short runway 24 L ready to go IFR departure to toronto pearson Intl.
Dorval Tower: AC786 you are cleared for take off runway 24 L winds calm. please make sure you are out of the taxi before taking off. Taxi is not cleared for take off with you.
AC786: What roger roger
Dorval Tower: AC786 contact Montreal departure on 514 777 8888 now
AC786: Bloody hell who gave you my wife's cell number.
Dorval Tower: sorry sorry correction. Departure controller is new so you wife is next to him helping him out so it is better idea to contact her. The controller is not aware of the unroute terminology yet....
AC786: sir, what can we expect from the en route controller then.. ???
Dorval Tower: Well, he is really good in History, Vocabulary and general knowledge he can definately tell you which historical building of the city is the oldest to crash you god dam Boing 747!!!!!!! on
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
o...... k...... I'm sorry you feel that way? I am sure there is a passing percentile as not everyone passes the test. The tests have also been developed by people who know what to look for... So... I will leave the expertise to them.
I found the test insanely easy as well. The other tests you're talking about I have also done for something else and also passed those no problem...
I do however feel the waiting and not receiving a score is somewhat tiring... But it's the process we get to wait through. I'm sure with time this will speed up, it is a new system, but I would not say they have failed completely. I suppose time will tell.
I found the test insanely easy as well. The other tests you're talking about I have also done for something else and also passed those no problem...
I do however feel the waiting and not receiving a score is somewhat tiring... But it's the process we get to wait through. I'm sure with time this will speed up, it is a new system, but I would not say they have failed completely. I suppose time will tell.
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
I'm just curious if you took the same tests that I did in November of 2008. In addition to a vocabulary section and general knowledge section (which included history) there were a few sections dealing with spatial awareness (rearrange the picture, whats missing from the picture), several "pattern" type sections and an auditory section. I'm sure there were more but it's been so long I forgot some of the sections.Aviation1 wrote: Nav Canada new recruitment process is a total failure, this type of exam will let only those people do better who are good in vocabulary, history and general knowledge and none of these is required for the job.
I'm not disagreeing with your statement about the process being a complete failure since I've only done the testing once, but it is very clear to me that the testing covers more than just vocabulary, history, and general knowledge.
I consider myself to have quite a bit of knowledge in ATC procedures as well as aviation since I have my PPL but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm suited for a career in ATC.
I'm not even gonna bother commenting on the ATC/Pilot exchange you mentioned in your post since I'm assuming it was meant as a joke.
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
Aviation1, I will apologize in advance for being blunt. I don't know a lot about the new testing system (I applied under the old) but if you failed the old aptitude test and didn't score well enough on the new test to warrant an interview it might be that you don't have the aptitude considered necessary to do the job. Even if you do study the aptitude tests and manage to achieve a passing score, it doesn't mean you will have the natural aptitude required to perform the job at a level needed to qualify in a unit. If this is the case consider yourself lucky that you don't have to endure months and years of training only to be released onto the street at the end of it all. Finally, judging by the lack of maturity displayed in your post towards me and my collegues it may be that the system worked in this instance, and you are not cut out for this job. If you choose to apply again in the future I wish you the best of luck, or in any of your future endeavours.
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
I've written the tests in both systems and didn't find them all that significantly different. I've passed them each time, and hopefully this time I get through all the interviews (passed the first, waiting on the second). Overall I find the new system a great improvement on the old, especially having the interview being conducted by people with real ATC experience. I also appreciate having the website actively track your progress so you know where you stand at any given time.
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
I've heard a rumor about letters going out about a hiring freeze... anyone get one or anyone know if there's any truth to this?
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
It looks like the downturn in the economy has spread to Nav Can also. I was talking with a good friend who is a controller/supervisor in a western ACC last night and traffic levels have dropped 30% or more in his opinion. With all of the cross training and belt tightening, it might be a very long wait for new hires.
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Re: Recruiting process for ATC
Clearly no position in aviation is guaranteed in bad times.
Can any curent controllers recall a time in the past where there were layoffs or hiring freezes in the past? If so how long did they last, and were they in pace with the economic situation in general?
Can any curent controllers recall a time in the past where there were layoffs or hiring freezes in the past? If so how long did they last, and were they in pace with the economic situation in general?
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
I haven't heard anything about a hiring freeze. They may not be running classes in certain regions, but that's about it. If you really want to get on, you may have to do the class in Toronto, Winnipeg, or Edmonton. And you may have to go VFR or IFR instead of your first choice. Current employees, regardless of bargaining unit, will get priority, be it CATCA, ATSAC, IBEW or whatever else.
This job is as close to recession proof in aviation as they come. It's a highly specialized position, and they're better off keeping controllers with experience during the slightly slower times around than laying off and rehiriing with all the training costs associated. I am secure that as long as I maintain my medical, that I will have an operational job for as long as I want it. After that I will have a top pension as well.
This job is as close to recession proof in aviation as they come. It's a highly specialized position, and they're better off keeping controllers with experience during the slightly slower times around than laying off and rehiriing with all the training costs associated. I am secure that as long as I maintain my medical, that I will have an operational job for as long as I want it. After that I will have a top pension as well.
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
davidv wrote:I've heard a rumor about letters going out about a hiring freeze... anyone get one or anyone know if there's any truth to this?
Recruitment is participating in the Red River College Career Fair next week in Winnipeg.
http://www.rrc.mb.ca/index.php?pid=3900
Such behaviour seems like the OPPOSITE of a hiring freeze...
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
Well that's a good sign then. Hopefully it is just indeed a rumour and nothing more than that then.
Is that for the first or second interview?
Is that for the first or second interview?
Re: Recruiting process for ATC
First... So... A good sign for the west I suppose?