One of the things I often here YYZ controllers ask is "do you want to close up the approach" and was wondering what exactly this means.
From what I can tell it seems to occur for smaller aircraft (AC Jazz etc.) and it almost seems like they do it as a favour but often aircraft decline the offer and they are given further instructions and then proceed for a normal ILS or visual approach.
Are they asking if they want to take a shortcut or a shorter final approach?
Just curious.
YYZ and "Close up the approach"
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Re: YYZ and "Close up the approach"
Closing up the approach means letting the plane fly itself to final by means of an RNAV STAR. Basically how we do it (I can't speak for YYZ) but is anything in the likes of an A319-21, 767, 737NG and the E170/190 we clear them to XXX airport via the XXX arrival for the ILS rwy XX. It let's the plane run itself in the most efficient means possible. At my TCU we received and ops bulletin that stated the companies would prefer, traffic permitting of course, to close up the approach automatically. Hope that helped, i'm not too familiar with the YZ ops, but that's how it is where I work!
Re: YYZ and "Close up the approach"
they are refering to an RNAV STAR where instead of being vectored, upon getting to the DTW you turn base to the FACF and then straight in.
IE
(DTW){-------------------------------------- STAR
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(FACF)--------ILS---------------}
IE
(DTW){-------------------------------------- STAR
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(FACF)--------ILS---------------}
Re: YYZ and "Close up the approach"
Funny thing. Working a midnight shift and I tend to offer everyone to close the approach when there is no traffic as it cuts my workload and presumably the pilots as well. It seems that the Airbus, 737 and Embraers all recognize the FACF and DTW as flyby waypoints and will actually anticipate the turn and stay inside of the pattern depicted. However it's the second time I've seen a CRJ fly past the DTW and turn final to cross over the FACF. I asked the pilot and he said it was the way it was programmed.
Is there a difference in the FMS of these planes? There is talk of allowing more and more traffic to do their own navigation but certainly as a controller I would hate to be surprised by having a plane blow a critical turn. Any ideas?
Is there a difference in the FMS of these planes? There is talk of allowing more and more traffic to do their own navigation but certainly as a controller I would hate to be surprised by having a plane blow a critical turn. Any ideas?
Re: YYZ and "Close up the approach"
Last I checked the Jazz CRJs weren't allowed to "close the approach" for that very reason.
Re: YYZ and "Close up the approach"
Hmm interesting, just early this morning around 2am (after lengthy delays) arriving in YYZ the controller asked us to close the approach on the ILS to 15L on the CRJ. It can be programmed in the FMS and it show the turn on the MFD outside the DTW. We tried it out and the controller came back and asked us the same question about why does the RJ turn outside the DTW opposed to Boeing, Airbus,Embraer, etc. We didn't have an answer for him but it did work very nicely.
following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
Re: YYZ and "Close up the approach"
I flew the RJ in the past and am now on the EMB. When we close up the approach the EMB uses the waypoints as a "flyby" waypoint as opposed to a "flyover" waypoint hence the EMB turning slightly inside the waypoints in certain instances. (dependant on speeds) I don't recall the RJ (its been a few years) but perhaps they are programmed in as "flyover" waypoints which would result in them going signifigantly past the point to make the turn.
