FYI I've been an ATC for 12+ years in another country.
I was OK with their decision until recently i had the opportunity to discuss with a former NAVCANADA official who told me that, actually their "policy" is NOT to hire 30+ years old candidates off the street furthermore having been an ATC was not an asset because they preferred hiring 20-25 years old candidates with few or no aviation background in order to format them their own way.
Did any of you guys ever experienced something like that ?
Same for me. But most of the students in my course were younger than 30 though. All I can say is I did not feel any discrimination during the course itself.avfun wrote:There were several people on my course significantly older than 30 who were successful.
I guess we'll see. I have my second interview on Monday. I am 37 and have no aviation background.
Perfect, that makes my drive to succeed even greater.invertedattitude wrote:Statistics prove people over 35 have a drastically lower chance of success than those younger
Just so I can understand the statistics, can you provide a link to the report? I always like to read study methodology, test group selection, statistical analysis used etc.
Thankfully I never listen to statistics. As someone who took statistic classes in university, I know the data can be manipulated to say whatever the manipulator wants.invertedattitude wrote:Statistics prove people over 35 have a drastically lower chance of success than those younger
I have not started the training, so I can't state whether this statistic is wrong. I will say that I am strongly against something like a statistic telling me I might not succeed.
If I listened to statistics then:
I wouldn't have completed a university degree at 36 - statistics do say I had a low chance of success going back to school and succeeding at this;
and I wouldn't have gotten a stand-by offer with Nav Canada at 38 - statistics probably stated I wouldn't get this far either (although I admit it isn't as good as an actual offer, but still, I've gotten farther than a lot of people younger than me);
I was well aware that I was past the 'prime age' that Nav Canada prefers when I applied (which is 25), but I took a chance and so far it's paid off.
The results could be skewed because of the high CT rate in IFR, but that is just a guess without looking at the data.
And, on the other hand, I have noticed that the older you get the more 'set in your ways' you can become. This could prevent some over 35 trainees from accepting the operational method of Nav Canada, don't like being humbled by the training, or are not flexible to the dynamic environment. There is also a higher chance of outside forces affecting these people, such as family, financing, etc. Again, it's hard to say why without seeing the data.
In the end, all this says is that I have a lower chance of passing the training. While I do agree that I could have a lower chance of success, there is still a chance of success.
No matter what I will do my best and hopefully that means being successful at passing the training (provided I'm offered a full seat).
Sorry for ranting,
Won't repeat the words of atcfusion, but I have just been green lighted after a 2nd interview at 37...maybe it was my extremely youthful looks. I find it hard to believe that there are so few younger and smarter people awaiting 2nd interviews that Nav Canada gave me a mercy pass only to know in the back of thier minds that I am statistically prone to failure. Between my age, no aviation experience, memory loss, frequent bowel movements and constant wondering what is wrong with the youth of today, I wonder how I ever made it past the online test.
Well thanks for the warning... If I end up on course with you, I'll be sure to get a seat on the otherside of the room!ff09727 wrote:Interesting,
Between my age, no aviation experience, memory loss, frequent bowel movements and constant wondering what is wrong with the youth of today, I wonder how I ever made it past the online test.
But hey ... that's old news now ... I'm sure its a completely different culture on the floor now, since morale is so much improved under the NAVCAN formulation.
My comments had absolutely zero to do with age discrimmination in the hiring process, only the unbelievable washout rate and final licence issue rate relative to the number interviewed, selected, admitted to the program at NICTI, the OJT program with some OJI's that didn't have teaching skills or background to instruct a hungry pup how to eat Puppy Chow ... would seem to be a highly flawed process when you end up with a one or two percent success rate from any selection and training process ... regardless of what the training is for.
Neurosurgery likely has a higher pass ratio ... for digging around inside people's brains with a scalpel....oh, but forgive me .... ATC is so much more difficult, and requiring a type of "free-form thinking" than being a brain surgeon, therefore, the past attrocious failure rate is fully justified.
We're talking about something that allegedly transpired in the 80's, in one particular unit, where it all could have possibly been the result of one or two persons (read: idiots) that were in charge of training that should not have been in charge of training.......? That brush is quite wide indeed, and impossibly irrelevant. I'm still trying to figure out if you were serious about today's morale having improved under the new ATS provider.... And you'd better believe that this is definitely not the same organization it was under Transport.
--Neurosurgery?.... really...? Could you show me where/when someone cited atc as being more difficult than neurosurgery. We should go ahead and surmise that bus driving is more difficult than flying an airplane. Tell you what, if they 'lowered' the standards for entry into the college of medicine to having no more than a high school diploma and a few rocks in your head (apt for any atc), what would the resultant washout rate be? Better still, if the nationwide success rate in atc improved to (for giggles) 95%, a figure more closely approximating that of a local grocery store clerk, would you feel more comfortable flying about?
Enjoy your retirement OFD. Glad to hear your cheery thoughts aren't in the active workforce.
I agree, and though the effect was pervasive, that no longer explains all of it. Management, shake your heads.... Besides that, perhaps things will get better as retirement (officially, i.e. non-double-dipping) claims some lasting vestiges of the 60's and 70's boomers whose expiry date has come and gone... By no means does this disparaging remark apply to all old-timers. Some (most) of them are great to work with. The culture is definitely changing, though.Indanao wrote: OLD GUARD, NEW GUARD, problems in Calgary are most probably a result of McCrae involvement.
I'm 19 years old and I just applied at their website.
Like everyone else, I passed the easy tests.
My assessment date still has a gray question mark on it.
I'm wondering if I even have a chance to make it through
What do you guys think?