Have questions for YYZ Tower? Ask them here!

[teacher]

Cool thanks. That's what we figured.

[Jug]

How about a ground question from a corporate jet? We are parking at Skyservice, and lately we've noticed that when we land on Rwy 05 clearing at H3 or rwy 23 clearing at F, we are always told to taxi onto Rwy 15L and then taxi up to T, right turn on E then into EA. In the past we always used to come right down E when coming from 23 or 05. Any reason for the change?

Great thread, thanks!

[cossack]

In the grand scheme of things E is a northbound route when on 05/23 ops (except when full de-icing in effect) so any routing south on E should be considered non-standard and a bonus. EA is normally owned by south ground (121.9) so north ground has to coordinate your entry via E with them to save you a frequency change.

More experienced controllers learn to plan further ahead and will see EA bound traffic while you're still on short-final (you having told tower, or been asked by tower where you're parking, or just recognizing your ident) and will pre-coordinate with the other ground and they will re-route traffic via A or give way to you going in.

If its just too busy to get you down E then you will go down 15L (or even 15R if no de-icing going on) for EA. Sometimes the default 15L route is used because there hasn't been time to coordinate. Both grounds can get busy and its a low priority task, but there's always the option of using R or S from 15L to join E.

[abercrombie]

a few years ago, departing in a B1900 off RWY23 for a positioning flight to YTZ, we were asked if we wanted a VFR departure. we took it. than were given a departure instruction for an immediate left hand turn-out to keep it inside of the control tower. best departure i've ever had out of YYZ and i was based there for 3.5 years. whoever that controller was, thanks.

oh also, i think we were cleared direct the button of RWY08 at the Island from tower before we even left the ground. now that is how you get sh*t done.....

[backon3]

Since its a relative topic of late. When landing 33L why the extremely long taxi (E C2 06L etc)? Why can't we be crossed further north? The other night we had a 26 min taxi after our 40 min flight from yow

[cossack]

The 33s cause issues for capacity. The arrival rate is reduced to around 42 and some of those will land on 33R further reducing the departure rate. As a rule we cross 33R with arrivals destined for gate C33 and north. All other arrivals get the end around. If taxiways M and F are ever connected this operation will be a good deal easier.

If we crossed 33R with all arrivals (like we do when we have to cross de-icers from east to west at S) the departure delays become unwieldy (as do the line-ups waiting to cross 33R) and the south end of the airport becomes very congested with departures waiting to go. Doing the end around usually gives you continuous movement (subject to 33R arrivals of course) and reduces departure delays. We use C2-06L rather than C to mitigate jet blast issues from departures.

There is always the chance of the short cut across at T but that is purely timing dependent and should not be expected. Sometimes when traffic is lighter traffic destined for the north end of T1 (C34-139) may be crossed to expedite to the gate but only if it doesn't delay departures.

HTH

[frog]

Hello,

it is more a question for the arrival controllers but anyhow...

I wanted to know what you guys think of the new arrivals, for instance Linng3 arrival for 06/24/23
I notice that it is impossible to comply with the restrictions (with a 737 anyway).
I got to say that the controllers always help with this issue, but I was wondering if other aircrafts were having the same issue and if it is the case whether you guys would initiate a change.
Thanks

[crj_705]

I know there is no such thing as a stupid question, but here it goes...

When things are busy at the airport normally aircraft arrivals are on 06R and departures are on 06L. This sometimes causes the aircraft that just landed on 06R to have to hold short of 06L for aircraft departing 06L. The departing aircraft on 06L sometimes even has to delay their take-off for crossing aircraft. This to me seems assbackwards...

Why can't we have departures on 06R and have arrivals on 06L??? There is considerable more free time between landers on 6L to cross departing aircraft at the threshold of 06L to get to 06R.

Thanks!

[cossack]

Not at all a stupid question. There are, however, numerous reasons its not done this way and here are the first few that come to mind.

1 - Can only be used in good weather. The glide path transmitters for both 06L and 06R are between the runways so unless all arriving aircraft could be cleared a visual approach or localiser approach then the signal would be compromised as aircraft taxied in front of the transmitter.

2 - If arrivals were not using the GP then you could only really cross one aircraft between arrivals at minimum space. This would dramatically slow down the departure rate. The arrival rate would remain the same resulting in a net loss of capacity.

3 - In the present operation, departures are occasionally delayed to allow multiple crossings, but we try to fit crossings in dead space behind "Heavy" departures as much as possible. Arrivals are held, usually not more that 4-5 minutes, to allow a flushing of departures. No flushing of departures is possible using the runways the other way around as there would be a continuous arrival flow stemming the crossing of departures. You have landed at 2.5 mile spacing rather than 5 miles saving you some airborne time, which may be traded away by ground holding.

4 - Poor runway crossing performance. Arrivals crossing the departure runway slowly only delays departures. Departures (which are heavier and therefore slower) crossing the arrival runway slowly in small (50 second) gaps, would cause overshoots which means more delays.

5 - Reduced flexibility for sequencing departures with regards to flow times etc. No taxiway space in between the runways for marshalling departures which would inevitably reduce the departure rate. How many times have you heard the next departure say they're not ready when given a "line up" clearance? Do that in your operation and its a show-stopper.

That'll do for now.

[jag202]

Have a question about 15L being used as a taxiway. Under which circumstances is it used? From what I have seen, there is usually a mix between south on B and South on 15L. Also, under what circumstances are some props sent off 33R from B1? Is this for props heading north to TONNY or CALON under a east/west config?

[cossack]

Have a question about 15L being used as a taxiway. Under which circumstances is it used? From what I have seen, there is usually a mix between south on B and South on 15L.

Controller preference: fast lane - slow lane. I prefer to use 15L over B as B can get congested around AK and AL.

Also, under what circumstances are some props sent off 33R from B1? Is this for props heading north to TONNY or CALON under a east/west config?

On westerlies those routing V320/V104/V443 and the northbound routes are suitable for 33R. On easterlies V320 and those going east are also suitable.

V104/V443 are not suitable on easterlies as they cannot be turned left through the "arrival box" unless its pretty quiet. The same is true for eastbounds when on westerlies.

It is used if we can gain an operational advantage and get the prop out of the way quicker without disadvantaging others. If its too busy and other aircraft would be delayed by using 33R then you'll taxy to 23 or 05.

[Trim Spinner]

What are your thoughts on this:

Say there's an aircraft short 24R waiting for departure in the left lane and we are coming up behind them. Without you telling us which lane to be in, is it bad practice to take the other (right) lane and hold short? Especially if we are ready the immediate.

Thanks!

[YYZSaabGuy]

Wouldn't mind your thoughts on another point while you're at it: last week's thread on Radio Procedures included a discussion around initial call-up to Toronto Terminal. Do you prefer a "Wake Up Call" first ("Toronto Terminal, C-ABCD") and leave it to you to acknowledge when you have time, or do you prefer all relevant information on the first transmission ("Toronto Terminal, Cessna C-ABCD, VFR, southbound at 2200 over Burlington, request flight following and city tour")? I've always understood you preferred a "Wake Up Call" first, but am happy to change procedures if I'm hogging the frequency.

[cossack]

What are your thoughts on this:

Say there's an aircraft short 24R waiting for departure in the left lane and we are coming up behind them. Without you telling us which lane to be in, is it bad practice to take the other (right) lane and hold short? Especially if we are ready the immediate.

Thanks!

Not at all. If Ground wants you on a particular side, they'll ask...usually. Just don't leave the Ground frequency down in that corner until told to as there is often a lot of last second sequencing with flow times to be done.

Wake up call, please. Its no good going through everything you want to say just to have to say it again because the controller was busy "off-air" with something.

[xchox]

Silly question... which depending on the answer to the first question, may have a second question.

Many years ago I was talking to an Air Canada pilot and he said all three West/East runways were perfectly parallel. Today I was talking to a few TransAt pilots and it came up again and they too said all three were perfectly parallel.

Is this true?

If this is true part B of my question is:

Why were they not numbered L C R?

An example would be DFW with 35L 35C & 35R

[cossack]

They are parallel. They were numbered like this in preparation (many years in advance) of the building of the fourth parallel south of taxiway H which would be 5R/23L.

[A346Dude]

They are parallel. They were numbered like this in preparation (many years in advance) of the building of the fourth parallel south of taxiway H which would be 5R/23L.

The CFS does indeed prove all 3 runways are 237 degrees. Which begs the question, why do we go through the bother of renumbering runways when 23/05 is allowed to be a full 7 degrees off its designation?

YYC's former 16/34 is only 5 degrees off it's former designation (i.e. just as close to 16/34 as it is to 17R/35L). Why not keep it as 16/34, save a whole bunch of new signs and publications, and eliminate any chance of confusing 17L and 17R?

[FenderManDan]

I was going to ask about the wake up call, but someone beat me to it
Anyways the second question is can i possibly do low and over in c172 sometimes. Do you have slower times and can i call the tower to arrange. It is just a magnificent view what can I tell you.

Thanks

Dan

[cossack]

Anyways the second question is can i possibly do low and over in c172 sometimes. Do you have slower times and can i call the tower to arrange. It is just a magnificent view what can I tell you.

Thanks

Dan

When you're flying around the zone talking to satellite, ask them and they will ask the tower. As for a good time its quiet late morning until 2-ish then busy until after 9:30pm.

It probably won't be a low and over but via 33L (if 05/06L in use) or 33R (if 23/24R in use) centreline at 2000 or 2500 feet. If we're using the 15s or 33s then the request will probably be declined.

[1000islander]

Why does it take upwards of 10-14 mins to issue an Atis that is based on wx. that is taken on the hour??? Tks