Medivac call-signs

[I WAS Birddog]

I read somewhere-somewhere that if an in-flight aircraft that is dedicated to the "medivac service" by using the call sign "MEDIVAC", that aircraft has priority due to a critical care patient onboard. If this aircraft does not have a critical patient onboard...the aircraft is not to use that call sign of "Medivac" and get priority handling into an airport.

True or not?

There's a second part to this question depending on the answer given.

[Valid31]

Not true. I believe that if they are transporting critical supplies or equipment, they can still be a medevac (i.e. transporting organs to another city for transplant).

[kevenv]

I read somewhere-somewhere that if an in-flight aircraft that is dedicated to the "medivac service" by using the call sign "MEDIVAC", that aircraft has priority due to a critical care patient onboard. If this aircraft does not have a critical patient onboard...the aircraft is not to use that call sign of "Medivac" and get priority handling into an airport.

True or not?

There's a second part to this question depending on the answer given.

We have no way of knowing what/who is on board. If the aircraft calls itself "Medevac" it is accorded priority above all others except emergencies. No if's, ands or buts.

A number of years ago, there was a big accident in Saint John at night. I was working and had 3 "Medevac" flights inbound to the airport at the same time. Now obviously, none of them were carrying patients. They were teams of doctors showing up to harvest organs for transplant. I had to ask them who needed to get there first (it was the cardiac team).

When I worked in Goose Bay we routinely saw LabAir operate a Medevac DHC6 that did a sked run from up the coast to Goosebay for medical appointments. We called it a Skedivac but it was still accorded priority based on the use of the term "Medevac". It was not unusual for them to tell me that they didn't require priority if they heard I was going to delay someone else for them.

[ArcticKat]

Back when I flew as a medic on medevacs the pilot told me that he files the flight plan as medevac and can append his call sign as medevac to gain priority for landing and departure, but he doesn't like to do it unless it's an absolute critical situation because he considered it an abuse of the system. From this I infer that anytime a medevac flight is transporting a patient the pilot can use "medevac" in the call sign, but there is a way to use it responsibly. It's kinda like my ambulance...I can have my emergency lights turned on a lot more than they are if I want to, but that's just abusing the system and benefits no one while increasing the risks, it's just not acceptable.

[I WAS Birddog]

Thank you everyone for your replies

break---break----

Back when I flew as a medic on medevacs the pilot told me that he files the flight plan as medevac and can append his call sign as medevac to gain priority for landing and departure, but he doesn't like to do it unless it's an absolute critical situation because he considered it an abuse of the system. From this I infer that anytime a medevac flight is transporting a patient the pilot can use "medevac" in the call sign, but there is a way to use it responsibly. It's kinda like my ambulance...I can have my emergency lights turned on a lot more than they are if I want to, but that's just abusing the system and benefits no one while increasing the risks, it's just not acceptable.

Curious. What if it isn't used responsibly? Are there or have ever been any ramifications for those that abuse it? The reason why I raise this is because I know what goes on because I hear about it all the time in FBO's and pilots bragging about it. ESPECIALLY coming into large city airports during FLOW restrictions. Surely a compnay to generate revenue to make a pick up call of a non-medevac WILL turn away and perhaps hint to its pilots a means to make the revenue flight?

[ahramin]

BTW it's MEDEVAC.

Simple. It isn't used responsibly. TC AIM states that it is to be used when priority is required for a life saving medical emergency. Most of the operators I have encountered use it for every flight, regardless of whether or not there is a patient on board. This is why you run into the ridiculous situation of controllers having to ask MEDEVAC aircraft if they require priority.

[ArcticKat]

Sorry I Was BIRDdog

I have no idea what would happen if it was used in a situation that did not neccesitate the priority. ATControllers certianly do not have the expertise to determine if it is a medical emergency, neither do the pilots. I suppose the pilots are forced to rely on the word of the medical personnel tending the patient, therefore, if the pilot is told to get priority by the medical staff, the medics should be ultimately responsible. Unfortunately, TC has no authority over the medical staff and I suspect that if there were repercussions toward the pilot he would have a valid defense in saying "They told me too!!!" because the pilot would not be expected to know any better.

Problem is that the medical staff might hang the pilot out to dry if there is an investigation because they could just deny telling him to get priority.

I've never heard of any investigations though.

[fish4life]

These are a few situations as to why you probably should use a medevac call sign to CYA

a) The problem can be this if you are doing a medevac flight and there is an ambulance waiting because you told them you'd be down at 615 and you didn't use your medevac call sign so you get vectored around and arrive at 625... No big deal right? well what if lets say at 630 there is a call and someone needs an ambulance because they are having a heart attack but now there are none available because you were 10 minutes later than planned so now they have to finish transporting your patient first.

b) you don't use your medevac call sign so you get vectored around again adding 10-15 minutes to your flight time, so now during this time your previously stable patient becomes unstable and dies, would you rather not have been on the ground in that case? rather than trying to explain to ON, MB, AB, SK, etc health that you felt like the medevac call sign wasn't required because you "thought" the patient was fine.

just remember CYA boys

[Sleeve of Wizard]

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/p ... -0-466.htm

A MEDEVAC is a flight responding to a medical emergency for the transport of patients, organ donors, organs or other urgently needed life-saving medical material. This can also apply to certain medical flights, including helicopters, which may be designated as Air Ambulance Flights.

[sakism]

A MEDEVAC is a flight responding to a medical emergency for the transport of patients, organ donors, organs or other urgently needed life-saving medical material. This can also apply to certain medical flights, including helicopters, which may be designated as Air Ambulance Flights.

The bold section is the everyday use of the term Medevac.

It is used on Air Ambulance Flights.
It is used on empty legs on the way to pick up a patient as their status is unknown.
It should NOT be used on empty legs back to base.

All medevac flights depart with the patient in a condition deemed to be stable for transport. If things change in the air, the flight becomes a Priority medevac, and is basically the same as declaring an emergency.

[Go Guns]

Ok then, so where in the AIM or the CARs does it mention "priority medevac"?

At any rate, we've beaten this to death before.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=48193
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=16530
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=22961

[I WAS Birddog]

Thanks everyone. I've learned a lot by your replies.

I'm not a fan of abuse of privilege or abuse of power.

Thanks for the replies Internets

[Tim]

we use medevac everywhere we go, patient or not, if there is a medical team on board. there is only 1 team for adults and 1 team for children in NS/PEI on call at a given time. the logic is we have the only team on board so our goal is to get them back to base and resupplied ASAP should another call come.

[ArcticKat]

we use medevac everywhere we go, patient or not, if there is a medical team on board. there is only 1 team for adults and 1 team for children in NS/PEI on call at a given time. the logic is we have the only team on board so our goal is to get them back to base and resupplied ASAP should another call come.

That's a pretty irresponsible use of the designation IMHO. By that logic, every town with only one ambulance, of which there are many, would have them driving around with lights and sirens on everywhere they go just to make sure they get back to their area quickly. Perhaps not quite so dangerous in the air where you're just given priority sequence, but still.....

[Gannet167]

If you're using MEDEVAC when you have no patient/organs on board or are not enroute to pick such things up, then you're abusing the system. You may only have one team of doctors, but because you are not in an active medical evacuation situation (but rather are moving medical folks around to position for a possible upcoming medevac) you are getting priority in the ATC system when you don't need it. If another flight truly does have a guy on life support in the back, that flight is competing with you for priority and your flight does not warrant it in that case. Returning to base or repositioning (regardless of the staff on board) is not an active medevac and should not be prioritized as one.

[Apache64_]

When I flew medevacs, it was company policy for the pilots not to know the status of patients so as to avoid any heroics. So that being said we were Medevac status whenever there was a patient on the plane and not when we were headed back to base.

[PanEuropean]

Good points from all about being circumspect about using the 'Medivac' radio call. However, sometimes it's not a good idea to be 'too considerate' with the call signs.

I was hauling a very badly injured person once, and sadly, the person died enroute. So, next time I spoke to FSS, I asked them to amend my flight plan to delete the remark 'Medivac'. They asked why, and I told them it was because my passenger had turned into freight.

I got in shit for that...

[I WAS Birddog]

Good points from all about being circumspect about using the 'Medivac' radio call. However, sometimes it's not a good idea to be 'too considerate' with the call signs.

I was hauling a very badly injured person once, and sadly, the person died enroute. So, next time I spoke to FSS, I asked them to amend my flight plan to delete the remark 'Medivac'. They asked why, and I told them it was because my passenger had turned into freight.

I got in shit for that...

Good on ya for removing the call sign. AND as a student of comedy...that would be funny to me. But I can understand how it's not for everyone. Can't please 'em all.

[Gannet167]

I believe that if a person dies on an aircraft, upon its next landing the aircraft is quarantined until a coroner can investigate the cause of death and pronounce the person dead. This isn't for infectious diseases, but rather as an official legal matter of when, where and how the person died. If you're transiting through other countries as a medevac, this can cause considerable headaches and delays for days as local rules may vary considerably. For this reason, I was told that if someone dies, we merely describe them as not showing any vital signs. The pronouncing of death is only done at final destination by a doctor.

[it'sme]

Back in the early '80s, when we would do occasional medevac flights, if we had flights terminating at CYYZ we would be met by police at the FBO to verify that we had a patient on board if we had used a medevac callsign. They would look to see that there was a patient being loaded into an ambulance and then leave. We asked what the deal was once and were told they had been requested to do that by TC. If they came across aircraft "falsely or incorrectly" using the callsign they were to take all the particulars and punitive action would be taken. Keep in mind that controllers were TC employees back then.

[SII]

I believe that if a person dies on an aircraft, upon its next landing the aircraft is quarantined until a coroner can investigate the cause of death and pronounce the person dead. This isn't for infectious diseases, but rather as an official legal matter of when, where and how the person died. If you're transiting through other countries as a medevac, this can cause considerable headaches and delays for days as local rules may vary considerably. For this reason, I was told that if someone dies, we merely describe them as not showing any vital signs. The pronouncing of death is only done at final destination by a doctor.

Only doctors can prononce which is why DOA is an industry standard term. Remeber the georgian lugger that went head first in to a metal pillar at 160 KPH. everyone new he was dead instantly but CPR was preformed for 20 min before a doctor could prononce him dead.

[ArcticKat]

I believe that if a person dies on an aircraft, upon its next landing the aircraft is quarantined until a coroner can investigate the cause of death and pronounce the person dead. This isn't for infectious diseases, but rather as an official legal matter of when, where and how the person died. If you're transiting through other countries as a medevac, this can cause considerable headaches and delays for days as local rules may vary considerably. For this reason, I was told that if someone dies, we merely describe them as not showing any vital signs. The pronouncing of death is only done at final destination by a doctor.

Only doctors can prononce which is why DOA is an industry standard term. Remeber the georgian lugger that went head first in to a metal pillar at 160 KPH. everyone new he was dead instantly but CPR was preformed for 20 min before a doctor could prononce him dead.

If you're talking about the one during the opening day of the olympics that is not the reason. They did CPR in an attempt to save his life, not so they could declare him dead. Additionally, a coroner can also pronounce death.

[I WAS Birddog]

Tonight I had a smile on my face and I'll tell you why.

A government dedicated air ambulance was calling itself "Medevac". YYZ-ATC clarified if indeed they were flying medevac status. The pilot then corrected himself to normal, non-priority flight. Perhaps it was at the end of a long day and the pilot was so used to calling himself that that it slipped out that way. No biggie. I'm SO guilty of calling my flight by another # ALL the time as well . Hey, we're all human.

HOWEVER...it was cool to hear the Centre controller seek out his true status.

Baby steps...baby steps...

[BEFAN5]

We will ONLY use medevac if we actually have a patient on board. If we are flying empty, we revert to a different call sign. I think it is incredibly irresponsible to say you need priority over anyone else if you are just carrying a sleeping a nurse in the back.

[bigsky]

We will ONLY use medevac if we actually have a patient on board. If we are flying empty, we revert to a different call sign. I think it is incredibly irresponsible to say you need priority over anyone else if you are just carrying a sleeping a nurse in the back.

?? What if you are empty going to get the patient?? I think you are still MEDEVAC status.

I agree with those that state it is not the pilots job to determine the status. If you are hired for emergency medical transportation, then you should use MEDEVAC.