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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:56 pm 
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CD wrote:
NPA 2009-073: 422.03 - Issue and Endorsement of Air Traffic Controller Licences and Ratings
Quote:
Justification for Change:

The increase in the volume and complexity of air traffic in Canada over a number of years has necessitated the sub division of large and complex air traffic control facilities into smaller work units by the air navigation services provider. By so doing, air traffic controllers in Area Control Centres (ACC) are no longer required to maintain the knowledge and skills requirements for the entire ACC, at that location. The work within these large facilities has been apportioned by geographic area, surveillance capability, type of equipment in use, airspace strata, traffic flows, skills and knowledge requirements or any combination of these or other factors. The current Regulations and Standards do not facilitate the endorsement of air traffic controller licences with ratings, other than by location and type of rating (airport, terminal, area, oceanic). The proposed amendment to Subpart 402 and Standard 422 will provide a simple yet effective framework for the continued issuance of the existing rating types to air traffic control licenses. The intent of this modification is to ensure that the privileges of an air traffic controller licence and rating are exercised only within a control area or speciality where the individual has been fully trained and certified.

With the physical transfer of the Ottawa Terminal Control Unit (TCU) to Montréal ACC, there are no more stand alone TCUs in Canada. They have all been amalgamated into different ACCs. Since these terminal control functions are now fully integrated into the ACCs, a proposed change will remove the “Terminal Control Rating” from Subpart 402 and Standard 422, and ACC controllers, with the exception of “Oceanic Control” will now require an “Area Control Rating”. This will allow the service provider more leeway in cross training in the ACCs. The verification of training records will allow Transport Canada to confirm that air traffic controllers are qualified to exercise the privileges of their licences in their respective specialties.



So it isn't a recent act of collusion between TC and NC? So much for conspiracy theories. I am looking forward to reading the replies of macdon221 and Shadowfax to this. I guess no one will be refusing to work now will they?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:50 pm 
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In the words of Kevin V... "I guess no one will be refusing to work now will they?"

Kevin V....Don't put words in other people' post's. It was you and you only that suggested that. I beg you to read CD's post again.

CD...thank you for the clarification into the matter.

This I already knew and is what i explained in very first post. A "Proposal"...and a proposal only, not a published amendment.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:36 am 
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Edited to read: "This is painful, ignore everything I said and carry on."


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:58 am 
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Part 1 of my reply...

As this is a change to a Standard, it does not go to Gazette. As it was accepted at the November 2009 Technical Committee meeting, it could be formally published at any time.

Close but not quite complete. There are actually 3 NPA' associated with this proposal - 072, 073 and 074. 073 and 074 do in fact propose a change to a standard and if that were all, then CD is correct.

However, NPA2009-072 proposes a change (required by 073) to a regulation - that cannot be passed by CARAC without following the regulatory process in full. Because 073 and 074 are tied to 072, they must wait for 072 - which is why none of this is law yet (you can google the CARS to double check - Terminal Ratings are still in effect)

CARS Part I – 3.11 Regulation and Standard Making Process for NPAs
NPAs to regulations that receive approval as part of the CARAC process must still follow the Government of Canada’s regulatory process and be published pursuant to the Statutory Instruments Act in the Canada Gazette

NPAs to standards…may proceed directly to Transport Canada’s publication process

[i]Notwithstanding the above, if the standard is directly associated with a regulatory NPA that will be published in the Canada Gazette, the publication date of the standard will be the same as the regulation as announced in Canada Gazette part II


CARS Part I – General Provisions
103.01
(2) The Minister shall not make a standard or an amendment to a standard unless the minister has undertaken consultations with interested persons concerning the standard or the amendment in accordance with the procedures specified in the publication entitled CARAC Management Charter and Procedures
(3) No standard or amendment to a standard shall come into effect less than 30 days after it is made[/i]

Have there been "consultations with interested parties"? Can any of the interested parties dissent and stop the process? Might want to get an answer to that...

It is intersting to note the date NPA 2009 - 072 was created - Sept 14 2009. The CARAC met to discuss this in November 2009. The earliest this could have had effect was December 2009 (if at all).


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:15 am 
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Part 2....lets recap.

FACT - TC was issuing "terminal control ratings" up until about a year ago. Maybe not everywhere, but definatly in some places. Lets put the date on that as fall 2010 - none since. We can also agree that must have been for controllers working in ACC's since the last stand alone TCU closed in 2006.

FACT - TC did issue "terminal control ratings" to every(???) controller working in stand alone TCU's prior to the last closure (YYC, YUL, YOW, YQR, YXE and YQT). I add the question mark only because this is a bit unclear. If they didn't, then I don't see the reason for TC to make this change at all!

FACT - not every designated TCA was always a stand alone unit. I believe YVR, YYZ, YEG and YWG have always been located in their respective ACC's since the 70's - for sure since 1996. Interesting to note that under privatization, ALL of these rules and regulations were reviewed AND confirmed.

So on one side we have anecdotal evidence by some posters that they have worked bona fide TCU's, using 3nm sep but stand alone unit or not is unclear, and they were not issued terminal ratings. One is apparently 50 years old with 20 years experience but we don't know if that was 20 years as a terminal controller or not.

ON the other side, we have a poster from a unit that has apparently until recently always issued terminal control ratings, even to those inside the ACC.

stby for part 3


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:26 am 
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Part 3 - logic?

So if TC doesn't need to issue terminal ratings because of location (inside an ACC), and if this is a legitimate ruling since at least 2006 - then why do the rules need to be changed via an NPA???? More importantly, why did it take TC until 2009 to propose a change to the rules? If it has changed, where is the official notification? Screw the Gazette - why hasn't every single license holder been told of the change? We were inundated by mailings when they changed the document (new booklet) - surely when they changed the priveledges you are legally allowed to exercise there would have been some notice?

However, if that logic is true, then every "terminal controller" working inside an ACC prior to 2006 should have been issued an "area rating" and if they weren't then that was not in conformance with the CARS either? Did they undergo the mandatory 60 day conversion training?

Furthermore, as already mentioned by another, what is the purpose of these ratings in the first place? Does the location that the job is peformed really change the rating required? The training requirements for the various ratings are clearly not the same. Why have an "oceanic rating" as that is only performed in YQX ACC - wouldn't an area rating suffice?

Are we to conclude that when YYC was moved from CYYC to YEG ACC, that the training required and job of YYC terminal controllers suddenly changed even though they were doing the EXACT same job?


Last edited by Shadowfax on Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:33 am 
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Part 4

I look forward to those who participated in this debate and think it's an individual responsibilty to refuse to work to report back with thier findings once they refuse. To be clear I think that concept an avoidance maneuver because quite frankly, the anecdotal arguement doen't hold any water at all.

I'll ask again - those who are using 3nm sep while providing a "terminal control service" without a terminal rating - HOW? I'd prefer if it was more than "my boss told me too"....or more anecdotal stories. Is there some CARS angle we are missing?

I do agree with the OP - something isn't right here. It's actually pretty sad that there isn't more concern by those affected. McJobs....


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:07 am 
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I hope you sent all that to CATCA before avcanada...


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