Changing from IFR to VFR
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Changing from IFR to VFR
I got the green light for my in-person interview today and am placed in the IFR stream. I was really hoping for VFR, and I must have mentioned it 20 times during my interviews to make my preference known. Has anyone had experience requesting a change of stream before receiving a training offer? I'm hoping that since they haven't placed me in a specific IFR course that they can just put me in the VFR pool and I can wait there until called for a course.
As well, can someone comment on the length if time of unpaid training for IFR? I know VFR is 4-6 months and then you go to OJT and get a training salary. Is IFR 12-14 months unpaid?
Lastly, if I am unable to change streams and accept an IFR training offer, assuming I check-out, what is the length of time until I can bid for a VFR position?
As well, can someone comment on the length if time of unpaid training for IFR? I know VFR is 4-6 months and then you go to OJT and get a training salary. Is IFR 12-14 months unpaid?
Lastly, if I am unable to change streams and accept an IFR training offer, assuming I check-out, what is the length of time until I can bid for a VFR position?
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Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
I don't think you can willingly change streams prior to offer of a placement in a program. I remember someone on here mentioning that they were offered IFR and turned it down knowing full well that they might not receive another training offer. However, that individual did end up receiving a training offer for VFR.
My understanding is 3 years minimum before you can apply to transfer out. This is assuming there is an opening in VFR within your region.
My understanding is 3 years minimum before you can apply to transfer out. This is assuming there is an opening in VFR within your region.
Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
Your preference being VFR is just that a preference. They will assess you based on your aptitude and previous experience and then place you in a pool where they think you are best suited. From what I have heard if you are in the IFR pool then they might offer you an IFR or a VFR course however if you are in the VFR pool they will only consider you for a VFR course.
I was in the IFR pool and was placed on an IFR course however there was a guy who was placed in the IFR pool at the same time and ended up being offered a VFR course. As the previous poster said, you could turn down an IFR spot and hope for a VFR position but in my humble opinion I think you would be playing with fire.
As far as the courses go:
VFR: Plan for 4-6 months unpaid (closer to 4) and then OJT for 6-10 months depending on your posting.
IFR: Plan for 12 months unpaid (closer to 10) and then OJT for 9-12 months depending on your specialty.
If you are successful in VFR or IFR you can bid to the other side after 3 years.
It is an extremely challenging process! There really aren't words to describe it. The qualification rates aren't stunning by any means but with that said the people at NavCan really do want you to succeed. The fact of the matter is that the job isn't for everyone and the only way to tell is through time in training.
If there are any further questions regarding the above^ feel free to PM me.
I was in the IFR pool and was placed on an IFR course however there was a guy who was placed in the IFR pool at the same time and ended up being offered a VFR course. As the previous poster said, you could turn down an IFR spot and hope for a VFR position but in my humble opinion I think you would be playing with fire.
As far as the courses go:
VFR: Plan for 4-6 months unpaid (closer to 4) and then OJT for 6-10 months depending on your posting.
IFR: Plan for 12 months unpaid (closer to 10) and then OJT for 9-12 months depending on your specialty.
If you are successful in VFR or IFR you can bid to the other side after 3 years.
It is an extremely challenging process! There really aren't words to describe it. The qualification rates aren't stunning by any means but with that said the people at NavCan really do want you to succeed. The fact of the matter is that the job isn't for everyone and the only way to tell is through time in training.
If there are any further questions regarding the above^ feel free to PM me.
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Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
Thanks TA/RA. You answered my questions prefectly.
Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
Pearson tower candidates are streamed IFR even though it's a VFR position. In the Toronto FIR my understanding is that Pearson Tower is constantly recruiting VFR controllers (they're apparently short). If you streamed IFR on your dashboard, it's possible you're being considered for a VFR course for Pearson Tower. That process is 6mths unpaid, followed by 6 mths complex training paid at the training rate, followed by 12 months OJT at the training rate.
With Buttonville slated to close and a bunch of Toronto FIR VFR tower controllers to be released into the stream in the coming 12 months I wouldn't set my hopes too high on a tower other than Pearson in the Toronto FIR. I'm sure anything can happen, but there are a finite amount of positions available in the system.
Hope that helps.
With Buttonville slated to close and a bunch of Toronto FIR VFR tower controllers to be released into the stream in the coming 12 months I wouldn't set my hopes too high on a tower other than Pearson in the Toronto FIR. I'm sure anything can happen, but there are a finite amount of positions available in the system.
Hope that helps.
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Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
I wouldn't consider ATC 5 + YYZ OFP as a training rate.Lotro wrote:Pearson tower candidates are streamed IFR even though it's a VFR position. In the Toronto FIR my understanding is that Pearson Tower is constantly recruiting VFR controllers (they're apparently short). If you streamed IFR on your dashboard, it's possible you're being considered for a VFR course for Pearson Tower. That process is 6mths unpaid, followed by 6 mths complex training paid at the training rate, followed by 12 months OJT at the training rate.
With Buttonville slated to close and a bunch of Toronto FIR VFR tower controllers to be released into the stream in the coming 12 months I wouldn't set my hopes too high on a tower other than Pearson in the Toronto FIR. I'm sure anything can happen, but there are a finite amount of positions available in the system.
Hope that helps.
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Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
I didn't think you received OFP while training?? Someone correct me if I am wrong.I wouldn't consider ATC 5 + YYZ OFP as a training rate
Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
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Last edited by Lotro on Fri May 09, 2014 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
Just say "Cancelling IFR"...
Going for the deck at corner
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Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
AuxBatOn wrote:Just say "Cancelling IFR"...
Air Canada 143, Edmonton Center... we are canceling IFR. Descend and maintain FL170, advise when visual.
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
I can't tell you about the rest but I can tell you that my (IFR) training was 3 months of basic, 9 months of specialty training. During your OJT you will receive your training salary and no Operational Premium. For YEG FIR, OJT training salary is roughly 36k. Some courses are shorter than that, some courses are longer. I qualified in 8 months of OJT but I've known it to last quite a bit longer.DHC-1 Jockey wrote:As well, can someone comment on the length if time of unpaid training for IFR? I know VFR is 4-6 months and then you go to OJT and get a training salary. Is IFR 12-14 months unpaid?
After qualifying you will be paid ATC-5 Salary with OFP which equals a little more than 100k. As far as success rates are concerned, I've seen in the last 3 IFR classes to come through, that 1/3rd of Generic course students qualify.
Re: Changing from IFR to VFR
You must wait 8 years after qualification to to be eligible to "downbid" from the acc or a complex tower like pearson to another vfr site, and you can only do it once in your career.
Once eligible, there is a process to get a spot which takes time and then a release from your current position and this depends on staffing levels. I've heard of transfers being deferred for 5 years. Even if nobody senior to you wanted that spot, plan on 11-15 years from the day you show up for initial training until being able to move from yyz ifr to yhm tower for example.
Once eligible, there is a process to get a spot which takes time and then a release from your current position and this depends on staffing levels. I've heard of transfers being deferred for 5 years. Even if nobody senior to you wanted that spot, plan on 11-15 years from the day you show up for initial training until being able to move from yyz ifr to yhm tower for example.