FSS 'Pre-Taxi IFR Clearance'

[Canoehead]

What qualifies some FSS to give an official 'Pre-Taxi IFR clearance' while others don't?

[kevenv]

What qualifies some FSS to give an official 'Pre-Taxi IFR clearance' while others don't?

They have to have an agreement/arrangement with the ACC to do it. Then the individual carriers need to "train" their pilots on it.

[Canoehead]

Thanks

[JonYTS]

Many pilots at Timmins ask for PDC and are told to have engines running to request their IFR. North Bay and Sudbury offer PDC.

[Jimmybuffet]

I'm guessing that has to do with the lack of Radar in YTS?

[JonYTS]

I'm guessing that has to do with the lack of Radar in YTS?

Exactly. The radar is just outside of CYHF (Hearst Ontario). Timmins tells the pilots, as soon as their IFR flight plan is active with Toronto Ctr., they officially activate the airway and must be airborne pronto, to not tie up the airspace.

[wingandaprayer]

From what I understand, it's not just radar requirements, there's a number of other factors involved in having pre-taxi clearances. You need SIDs, STARs, agreements with the ACC, and other stuff as well. I don't forsee getting that in YTS any time in the near future. In the mean time, when we(FSS) deliver an ATC clearance, it is valid, so the airspace around said clearance must be protected accordingly.

[JonYTS]

Atleast once a day, sometimes twice a day, Porter Jazz and Beadskin request a pre-taxi clearance. When FSS says they don't do that, the pilots get confused and ask "How do we get our clearance?" FSS says "You must have engines running and ready to taxi. However, I don't see any delays for your proposed time of departure." Timmins is an "only" airport with lots of non-radar based restrictions, such as "climb runway heading for XX miles BPOC." Or "Turn left/right, intercept XXX radial, not above 4000 feet until XX miles / established on the XXX radial." Most of the time, the restrictions are cancelled half way after departure.

[av8ts]

Atleast once a day, sometimes twice a day, Porter Jazz and Beadskin request a pre-taxi clearance. When FSS says they don't do that, the pilots get confused and ask "How do we get our clearance?" FSS says "You must have engines running and ready to taxi. However, I don't see any delays for your proposed time of departure." Timmins is an "only" airport with lots of non-radar based restrictions, such as "climb runway heading for XX miles BPOC." Or "Turn left/right, intercept XXX radial, not above 4000 feet until XX miles / established on the XXX radial." Most of the time, the restrictions are cancelled half way after departure.

Jazz and Bearskin fly in many airports that don't have pre-taxi clearance. I'd be very suprised if they were confused and didn't know how to get a clearance

[JonYTS]

You're absolutely right. The only regular airlines in Timmins that know PDCs don't exist are Air Creebec, Thunder Airlines and Pulse Medevac. The other airliners, including some charters, will question FSS, why it's not allowed.

Imagine if and when NavCanada launches satellite based aircraft detection and introduced PDCs for all small FSS based airports? Not including RAAS sites.

[Maynard]

Atleast once a day, sometimes twice a day, Porter Jazz and Beadskin request a pre-taxi clearance. When FSS says they don't do that, the pilots get confused and ask "How do we get our clearance?" FSS says "You must have engines running and ready to taxi. However, I don't see any delays for your proposed time of departure." Timmins is an "only" airport with lots of non-radar based restrictions, such as "climb runway heading for XX miles BPOC." Or "Turn left/right, intercept XXX radial, not above 4000 feet until XX miles / established on the XXX radial." Most of the time, the restrictions are cancelled half way after departure.

Jazz and Bearskin fly in many airports that don't have pre-taxi clearance. I'd be very suprised if they were confused and didn't know how to get a clearance

Yes I can assure you Bearskin will not query it unless he/she is a greenhorn.

[rxl]

PDC - Pre-Departure Clearance and Pre-Taxi Clearance are not exactly the same thing.
They are different methods of delivering an airways clearance to a flight before departure.
A PDC uses data link communications, whereas a Pre-taxi clearance uses verbal communication via VHF.