Landing in a control zone at a place other than an airport

[tdawe]

I'm curious what is meant by the phrase "Land your discretion" vs "Cleared to land", and at the risk of asking a stupid question can I land without it if I am landing at a spot within a control zone that is NOT at the airport? (in my case a roof top helipad)

Its my understanding that a "Land your discretion" means that the controller has no positive control over the area I want to land in, be it a float plane area, or in my case a roof top hospital helipad, the point is the controller cant guarantee that its mine alone in the same manor a runway is, because they do not "own it" in the same manor they do a runway.

I also understand that I need a clearance to ENTER controlled airspace, and that at a controlled airport I need a clearance to land. But I'm curious what MANOPS says about landing at places other than the airport, if I am already in the control zone.

Specifically, the question raised in discussion was this: I am approaching a class C (or D) control zone with a hospital pad and an airport in it. I call up before entering and the controller says "ABC cleared into the zone direct the hospital" and i acknowledge this. The frequency then becomes so congested he isn't able to get back to me and now I'm short final for the hospital. Do I HAVE TO orbit to wait to get a "Land your discretion" (even though that's not technically a clearance? or since the controller doesn't "own" the hospital (although he does own the air above it) can I exit his zone by landing?

[tower controller]

Its my understanding that a "Land your discretion" means that the controller has no positive control over the area I want to land in, be it a float plane area, or in my case a roof top hospital helipad, the point is the controller cant guarantee that its mine alone in the same manor a runway is, because they do not "own it" in the same manor they do a runway.

Exactly, when I issue you a landing "clearance" for a surface I control I am assuring you the surface is vacant, "land at your discretion" means I know of no reason why you can't land, but there could be activities going on that I don't know about, like boating or the helipad may have cars parked on it.

I also understand that I need a clearance to ENTER controlled airspace, and that at a controlled airport I need a clearance to land. But I'm curious what MANOPS says about landing at places other than the airport, if I am already in the control zone.

A quick check of MANOPS reveals it's a bit vague on the subject...

Specifically, the question raised in discussion was this: I am approaching a class C (or D) control zone with a hospital pad and an airport in it. I call up before entering and the controller says "ABC cleared into the zone direct the hospital" and i acknowledge this. The frequency then becomes so congested he isn't able to get back to me and now I'm short final for the hospital. Do I HAVE TO orbit to wait to get a "Land your discretion" (even though that's not technically a clearance? or since the controller doesn't "own" the hospital (although he does own the air above it) can I exit his zone by landing?

As far as I can find I would think you're legal to land, however, make sure you tell the controller you're on, because at somepoint he's going to wonder where you are.

If you're asking about one specific airport give the tower a call and ask them how they want you to handle it, it may save some difficulty down the road.

Tc

[ahramin]

Be cautious about saying that "at your discretion" means the controller has no positive control over the area. A lot of airports use "pushback your discretion" not because the ramp is uncontrolled, but because they can't see the area behind you so can't guarantee it's clear.

[kevenv]

Be cautious about saying that "at your discretion" means the controller has no positive control over the area. A lot of airports use "pushback your discretion" not because the ramp is uncontrolled, but because they can't see the area behind you so can't guarantee it's clear.

We use "push back at your discretion" because we do not control the ramp/apron not because we can't see you (though we may not be able to). You could be parked in the International horseshoe in YVR, in full view of the tower and you are still told to "push back at your discretion".