Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

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Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#1 Post by carholme » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:10 am

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#2 Post by sky's the limit » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:50 am

Just great.... FIngers crossed this one turns out better than NFLD.

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#3 Post by carholme » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:57 am

Not looking too good at the moment. Just watching the supply ship activities and they are recovering bodies.

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#4 Post by sky's the limit » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:10 am

Shit.

Never a good scene, thoughts go out to everyone involved.

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#5 Post by carholme » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:44 am

Eight confirmed dead, search underway for missing:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-New ... tish_Coast

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#6 Post by carholme » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:17 am

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#7 Post by carholme » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:27 pm

A workboat saw the aircraft hit the water.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-New ... tish_Coast

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#8 Post by 2R » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:39 pm

A chiplight in a heavy helicopter means you are going down NOW.
I never liked being higher than i could jump when a chip light came on when flying offshore.The old heli guys used to take em down to wave tops when they got a light .Why are these modern helicopters staying up so high when they get a light ?????That one in NF was up at 800-900 feet a long way to drop when the box grinds up and seizes solid .the engines may even seperate from the aircraft and these guys are sitting way too high for my comfort level.It is a gearbox failure not an engine failure. Where as in an engine failure you can use the enertia of the blades to start an autorotation.


Why are they so high these days ???It will still fly at fifty feet and if it crashes from fifty feet the survival rate might be better than falling from 800 feet.
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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#9 Post by carholme » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:14 pm

2R;

If you think a chip light means you are going down now, I suggest you go back to reading your comics and leave the decision making up to the crews who do an excellent job of offshore helicopter flying. You stated previously that you did a lot of back seat riding in the North Sea and your comments verify that.

If you are familiar with the North Sea and the wx conditions, you would know why they elect the altitudes which they operate at.

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#10 Post by sky's the limit » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:26 pm

2R wrote:A chiplight in a heavy helicopter means you are going down NOW.
I never liked being higher than i could jump when a chip light came on when flying offshore.The old heli guys used to take em down to wave tops when they got a light .Why are these modern helicopters staying up so high when they get a light ?????

Why are they so high these days ???It will still fly at fifty feet and if it crashes from fifty feet the survival rate might be better than falling from 800 feet.
2R,

I think you are confusing things somewhat.

As Carholm says, you are pretty far off the mark with your comments about chip lights and heavy helicopters, the certification requirements and flight planning.

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#11 Post by carholme » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:42 pm

Talking to the UK today and it looks like they are preparing to recover the aircraft. The crew did manage to get off a brief Mayday, shortly before impact.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... crash.html

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#12 Post by 2R » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:08 pm

carholme wrote:2R;

If you think a chip light means you are going down now, I suggest you go back to reading your comics and leave the decision making up to the crews who do an excellent job of offshore helicopter flying. You stated previously that you did a lot of back seat riding in the North Sea and your comments verify that.

If you are familiar with the North Sea and the wx conditions, you would know why they elect the altitudes which they operate at.

carholme
After the last Chinook went down in the north sea that was the SOP ,put it in the water .do not wait until it has a midair collision like the one that killed 45 people.The thinking that it could just be a faulty guage is flawed and may get you killed.
The guys who where rescued from the last ditching in the brent field of British Airways Helicopters third chinook accident in two years said "the pilot ditched after a chip light"If you are saying the official story is wrong i would like to know your sources.Mine where the guys who actually landed in the water,some of the pax who came back on the Brent rigs after being rescued that is what the pilot told them the reasons for the ditching.
We went on strike to get the chinooks grounded until they got fixed or the oil company found a safer helicoptor.The men refused to fly on those chinooks .
The Prime Minister threatened to have those who refuse to fly on the chinooks with mutiny,but that is another story.
I have been in a helicopter when the pilot choose to continue with all the bells and whistles going off short flight but one of the longest in fear.That helicopter crashed a week later killing seven men.
Anyhoo i am going back to my comics and let you guys debate why a professional pilot would choose to ignore the warning lights and recomended procedures listed in the AFM .It is also being discussed on another helio forum by some with 92 experience pilots .It would seem that it was not a chip light but a oil low pressure warning that required landing immediately according to the excerpt from the AFM posted.
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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#13 Post by carholme » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:36 pm

2R;

You would have known it was an oil pressure warning indication if you had bothered to read first and comment later.

As far as the Chinooks were concerned, this was very early in the development of the civil version and it was a particular dash number gearbox which was the problem.
You represent the worst kind of expert, reading what you can on forums and thinking you can relay that information with a degree of accuracy. Wrong, it shows clearly how ill informed you are.

Until you have something credible to add to the conversation, I suggest you learn something about offshore helicopter transport. At the moment, your sub par comments are a disgrace to the crew and passengers who lost their lives in the last two events.

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#14 Post by r22captain » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:02 am

After the last Chinook went down in the north sea that was the SOP
ok....that's a chinook...nothing to do with a 92 or 332.

The guys who where rescued from the last ditching in the brent field of British Airways Helicopters third chinook accident in two years said "the pilot ditched after a chip light"If you are saying the official story is wrong i would like to know your sources.Mine where the guys who actually landed in the water,some of the pax who came back on the Brent rigs after being rescued that is what the pilot told them the reasons for the ditching.
you're basing this off stories from the workers who said that's what the pilots said.....that's accurate. Plus all your telling is Chinook stories. Nothing related to these current events.

.
It would seem that it was not a chip light but a oil low pressure warning that required landing immediately according to the excerpt from the AFM posted.
there you go....some facts that we all knew on the first day of the 92 accident. Nothing to do with the latest tragedy.
on a side note...f-off with "assuming the proffesional pilots" screwed up. Maybe the light went out after descending, maybe the gauge read zero but the light was out. Maybe the light was on but the gauge read normal. Let's wait for the investigation. Oh...wait....or were you talking to someone who knew someone who was a friend of the guy that knew a guy.....or were you in the back of that machine with the "bell's and whistle's" going off

give me a break.....

condolences to all involved in this latest tragedy. Here's hoping that's it for 2009, 2010...etc etc.
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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#15 Post by carholme » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:49 am

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#16 Post by 2R » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:41 am

Not too long ago some pilots were content to sit wearing oxygen masks with smoke in the cockpit flying along getting ready to cross the Atlantic like nothing was wrong ,no mayday until the flames were licking their arses(Swissair).While the PAX sat blissfully unaware until their fate was sealed.Nowdays the smell of smoke sends a flight to the nearest airport RFN (right fucking now)
Many years ago pilots were content to fly with the hopeful and false assumption the the guage in their twelve million dollar helio was faulty or that it was a false indication and that the bells and whistles installed are just their to fill a hole in the dashboard.
After some horrorific crashes in the North Sea the companies changed what was expected from the crews when faced with alarms.Ignoring them or not following the written emergency response was no longer an option.
Of the two questions that i have asked only one has been answered in an inteligent manner.The crew did the right thing in turning around when they did .But the question about why they continued flight at 800 feet has also been asked on another helio forum and has brought forward some intelligent responses.Some quoting sales brochures making unsubstantiated false claims about thirty minute dry run capabilities that a similar gearbox on a similar helio has .This myth of thirty minutes dry run has been destroyed on another helio site .The CVR may shed some light on the decisions the pilots had made to continue. Thinking they had a thirty minute dry run capability as the old sales myth would had led them to believe.Rather than the imminent doom quickly closing in on them.
The next pilots facing a similar problem may react differently due to this myth being busted.
Many facts come out by the gossip of pilots and if any have taking offence at my gossip i truely apologise as no offense was meant .
Many questions will come out in the scuttlebutt and if answered in a calm and professional manner they will improve the safety .And that is something we can all agree too.
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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#17 Post by carholme » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am

Grampian Police report that some of the remaining bodies have been recovered from the crash site.

http://www.grampian.police.uk/NewsItems ... d=30;33;13

Let's hope that the recovery of the aircraft goes well.

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#18 Post by carholme » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:55 am

They have located recovered the FDR/CVR

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/nor ... 984332.stm

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#19 Post by carholme » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:30 am

They have recovered the aircraft.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/nor ... 984915.stm

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#20 Post by sky's the limit » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:31 am

Sad event, again.

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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#21 Post by r22captain » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:50 am

simply terrible... :(
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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#22 Post by 2R » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:10 am

http://www.pprune.org
rotorheads

Some very interesting posts from guys flying helio's
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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#23 Post by r22captain » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:56 am

"Anyone who is not touched by this tragedy is in the minority. There were, however, a number of posts which would be better in a separate thread"

Quote explained
"We dont care what you think we want the dirty gossip . Condolences are a waste of time ."
from pprune regarding this accident........it's a classy site.... full of bs......kind of like here sometimes :twisted:

be very careful what you believe as there are lots of "moonlighters"

I for one am going to wait for facts to come out....not rumours.....
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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#24 Post by 2R » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:28 pm

Press and Journal
Tests begin on aircraft’s data recorder
Probe into Puma crash ‘could run for months’
By Ross Davidson and Joanna Skailes

Published: 07/04/2009

The investigation into the cause of the North Sea helicopter crash which killed 16 people began yesterday with the examination of the aircraft’s wreckage and cockpit voice and flight data recorder.

The fuselage was recovered from the seabed 15 miles off Peterhead and brought ashore to Aberdeen harbour early yesterday before being transported to the Air Investigation Branch (AAIB) headquarters at Farnborough, Hampshire.

The cockpit voice and flight data recorder was flown there from the crash site on Sunday. They are now being examined to see if they will yield any clues revealing the cause of the accident.

An AAIB spokesman said there was no fixed timescale for the investigation and it could run for several months depending on the amount of evidence available.

He said: “If there are any findings which need to be made public immediately, an interim report will be issued before the publication of the full report.”

The investigation will undoubtedly involve looking at previous crashes involving Super Pumas since their first flights in 1986. It is thought investigators will closely examine the crash of a Super Puma off Norway’s coast 12 years ago, which killed 12 people. An earlier model of the helicopter in last week’s crash, it plunged into the sea on September 8, 1997.

The crash, near Statoil’s Norne oil platform in the Norwegian Sea, was caused by a technical fault and similarly hit the water moments after the warning lights started flashing.

In February last year, a Super Puma crashed off Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, killing five of the 17 people on board. The cause of the accident is still unknown.

The wreckage of the Bond Super Puma helicopter was brought into Aberdeen harbour yesterday morning.

The Bibby Topaz docked at 12.30am, also bringing the last eight bodies of flight 85N to shore. As the 350ft vessel, usually used as a specialist diving boat, tied up alongside Albert Quay, a sombre silence descended on the docks.

The crew started the painstaking task of lifting pieces of the wreckage by crane from ship to dock and then on to waiting Dyce Carriers lorries. Drivers started the long journey to Farnborough just after 4am.

At 5.30am, the bodies of the two pilots and six oil workers were driven away in a hearse and private ambulance under police escort.

Positive identification has not yet taken place.

A police spokesman said: “Confirming the identities of the victims is of the highest priority for Grampian Police and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service.

“It is not yet possible to confirm when this will be completed. The next of kin are being kept fully informed of any developments.”

Brian Taylor, chief operating officer of KCA Deutag which lost 10 employees in the crash, said: “All at KCA Deutag wish to send our thanks and appreciation to those involved in the successful operation to recover the remaining eight bodies.

“It has been a traumatic five days for all at the company and we are relieved to know that the bodies of each of the 16 men have been recovered.

“We all hope that this will be some small comfort to the next of kin, relations, friends and colleagues of the deceased. They are in our thoughts.”
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Re: Sky News reports another helicopter ditching

#25 Post by carholme » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:17 pm

Things are not looking well at the moment for the S92 as a Bristow Norway S92 has had to make an emergency low level 15 minute run to a Conoco Phillips rig, the Tor. The helicopter had 19 pax on board and made a safe landing on the Tor.

Aircraft was enroute to Sola from the Ekofisk when it encountered an oil leak situation. No definition at this time about the nature of the leak.

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