Flight Duty Time Regulations will probably change.

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Fred Lewis
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Flight Duty Time Regulations will probably change.

#1 Post by Fred Lewis » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:53 am

Flight Duty Time and Rest Period regulations as specified by CARs is likely to change. For and overview of the action so far visit http://www.cahepias.ca.
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Re: Flight Duty Time Regulations will probably change.

#2 Post by sky's the limit » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:13 pm

Thank you for posting that Fred,

These are discussions we out in the field have on almost a daily basis. The laws governing flight and duty in Canada are draconian, and they have resulted in far too many deaths, injuries, and broken families. It is time for change.

After a summer of said 14hr days, often spent sitting out in the bush in the heat and the bugs, I am done. I can't wait until the rains come - it shouldn't be like this. Try asking a bomber pilot, or a 704 or 705 FW pilot to put up with what we are asked to deal with, see what the answer is.

Now, what are we going to do about the appalling rates most owners are letting their machines go for? Until that changes, the rest will not... The rates that contract ships for various forest services are going for is embarassing, as are many in the mining exploration world, it is no wonder conditions, pay, and maintenance suffer. Business models where quantity of flt hours at cut throat tariffs and cornering of the markert abound - they do not work, this has been proven time and again. From seismic, to forestry, exploration, and power line work, we see this trend. We cannot fix what is broken until the cause is addressed.

Keep us posted.
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Twolane
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Re: Flight Duty Time Regulations will probably change.

#3 Post by Twolane » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:52 am

I don't believe that pilots are responsible for the "appalling rates" charged/bid by the companies. It's not incumbent on employees to be responsible for the rates that companies set.

The companies got themselves into that fix. Let HAC and its membership attempt to cure that problem. Although, I suspect that if they tried, it could be considered price fixing. In any event, owners got themselves into it through no fault of their pilots, so let the owners cure their own problems.

I believe it is, however, the responsibility of pilots to involve themselves in flight and duty time proposed requirements that affect their livelihood. The companies aren't going to do it, and in fact have refused to do so time and again.

Furthermore, I don't think a jaunty "keep us posted" is a valid response. Rather, perhaps after your statement below, you (and many others) might want to consider inserting yourself into the debate and make an attempt to work out an equitable solution for all concerned - both pilots and companies
...a summer of said 14hr days, often spent sitting out in the bush in the heat and the bugs, I am done. I can't wait until the rains come - it shouldn't be like this. Try asking a bomber pilot, or a 704 or 705 FW pilot to put up with what we are asked to deal with...

Keep us posted
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Re: Flight Duty Time Regulations will probably change.

#4 Post by sky's the limit » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:00 pm

Twolane,

I'm not sure you read my post very carefully, or at all.

Nowhere did I say "Pilots" are responsible for rates, in fact, quite the opposite. By "we," I mean our industry, as in all of us. Pilots are however responsible for often accepting the pittance offered to do many of the jobs created by these cut rate operators, and that is a plague we will never get rid of. I met a 212 fire and ski pilot who works year round not long ago who made $65,000 last yr... My jaw still hurts from hitting the floor.

And why exactly would you assume I'm not now, or in the past been actively involved in the various, and many issues faced in our industry? You assume far too much based on a couple paragraphs... when you really have no idea.

Other than that, you seem to have understood me perfectly.

Oh, and HAC? Utter waste of time. Proven time and again it's impotent in any of the real issues, and have actively lobbied against flt and duty restrictions in the past. Don't expect anything positive to come from the HAC for regular pilots and engineers.
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Re: Flight Duty Time Regulations will probably change.

#5 Post by The Mole » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:06 pm

The current Flight and duty regs are treated as "just suggestion" by most operators and clients anyway. The, its always been done that way generation is still alive and well in Canada.
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Re: Flight Duty Time Regulations will probably change.

#6 Post by jeta1 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:52 pm

sky's the limit wrote:Oh, and HAC? Utter waste of time. Proven time and again it's impotent in any of the real issues, and have actively lobbied against flt and duty restrictions in the past. Don't expect anything positive to come from the HAC for regular pilots and engineers.
Interesting... STL, could it be that HAC is more concerned about helicopter operators than the employees that make those operators operate? Well that is not really a surprise is it? If you want a sad story about unspoken fatigue, read (again...) TSB public report A10Q0133
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Re: Flight Duty Time Regulations will probably change.

#7 Post by sky's the limit » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:30 pm

jeta1 wrote:
sky's the limit wrote:Oh, and HAC? Utter waste of time. Proven time and again it's impotent in any of the real issues, and have actively lobbied against flt and duty restrictions in the past. Don't expect anything positive to come from the HAC for regular pilots and engineers.
Interesting... STL, could it be that HAC is more concerned about helicopter operators than the employees that make those operators operate? Well that is not really a surprise is it? If you want a sad story about unspoken fatigue, read (again...) TSB public report A10Q0133
Exactly!
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Re: Flight Duty Time Regulations will probably change.

#8 Post by 2.5milefinal » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:01 am

http://www.theprovince.com/industry+pus ... story.html

ATAC and HAC...same thing but different :(
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