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 Post subject: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:00 am 
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These must be for you.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bombard ... -1.2886623



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:45 am 
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or Sky, or Georgian, or Evas... :roll:
Hey but here's hoping! 8)

Happy New year everyone, hopefully 2015 will be a small step for pilot, a giant leap for pilotkind!



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:02 pm 
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They're for Jazz. AC is renewing the CPA. 2015+ will be a good years I hear :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:30 pm 
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When these get delivered my bet is the waypoints in the FMS will have an easterly longitude......


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:00 pm 
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Stinky wrote:


Thanks for the vote of confidence Stinky...I didnt think you cared for jazz!



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:11 pm 
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They're definitely for Jazz? Wondering why the price would be quoted in USD then, in a Canadian article, in a transaction between two CDN companies.

Ether way it's great news!


_________________
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Aircraft purchases are typically in USD.


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:51 pm 
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TrailerParkBoy wrote:
Stinky wrote:


Thanks for the vote of confidence Stinky...I didnt think you cared for jazz!


Despite all my pessimism for the pilots future at Jazz, I honestly do hope for a good outcome for you guys. I just don't recommend going there as a new pilot if you have any other options.

I'll post the spoilers now, don't read any further if you don't want to know the future.

Air Canada bought these with the intention of them going to Jazz, they just won't say that out loud. They'll put the work up for bid. Sky, GGN and Jazz will all bid. You'll be receiving a lot of doomsday memos about massive layoffs when the 200's are parked if you can't secure these new airplanes. You'll sweat for a while, take concessions and the planes will be yours as was always intended. Executives will receive big bonuses for taking you to the cleaners, Jazz pilots will avoid unemployment. Mission accomplished.



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:41 pm 
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Just like in murica!


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:32 pm 
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or for those Lily hammer fans..."MURI BURI LAND"


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:53 am 
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Is this possible with the scope language with ACPA? I thought anything >75 seats had to have main line drivers? The article says the 900 seats 90.


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:07 am 
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proper wrote:
or Sky, or Georgian, or Evas... :roll:
Hey but here's hoping! 8)



If these aircraft are in fact destined for Canada, the customer is either AC or CHR.

None of the other companies that you mentioned are capable of financing a $1B aircraft order.



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:39 am 
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727driver wrote:
Is this possible with the scope language with ACPA? I thought anything >75 seats had to have main line drivers? The article says the 900 seats 90.


The '705' series RJ is in fact a "scope-compatible" airplane built specifically for Jazz. It is a CRJ-900 with an interior designed to respect the scope limitation. Of course the press release will call it a CRJ-900 because if they called it a "CRJ-705 order for an undisclosed customer" then it wouldn't really be "undisclosed".



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:56 am 
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An MJA as defined in the ACPA collective agreement is a jet with a max certified seating capacity of 90 with no more than 76 seats in it.

Many aircraft operated by CPA providers are owned and financed by the major airline. You can't tell where these fins might go based on financing alone.

Assuming of course this is an AC related order. Might also be added pressure for the negots we all know are going on, but no one talks about. Might also be a good sign that things look like they are heading for a mutually beneficial compromise.

They could be to replace Sky's 175's. Who knows



Last edited by Fanblade on Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:00 am 
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Based on GGN barely able to operate 5 RJ I doubt they would be getting 24 more unless it's some fancy new top-secret pilot-less version. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:36 pm 
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Stinky wrote:
I'll post the spoilers now, don't read any further if you don't want to know the future.

Air Canada bought these with the intention of them going to Jazz, they just won't say that out loud. They'll put the work up for bid. Sky, GGN and Jazz will all bid. You'll be receiving a lot of doomsday memos about massive layoffs when the 200's are parked if you can't secure these new airplanes. You'll sweat for a while, take concessions and the planes will be yours as was always intended. Executives will receive big bonuses for taking you to the cleaners, Jazz pilots will avoid unemployment. Mission accomplished.


I think Stinky has given the most realistic explanation. If they are indeed intended for Jazz.....

But then again, I hope Jazz pilot union stands up and protects the contract, and both the company and the pilots come up with a mutually beneficial deal. (similar to AC and ACPA deal)



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:47 pm 
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For those Jazz pilots...do not take concessions what-so-ever for the next contract. If AC needs more regional flying, they know who to hire! Neither Sky Regional, nor Georgian, nor any new start up, can complete the increased flying AC has planned to be an International player!


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:59 pm 
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I too also believe it's possible that these aircraft are destined to the AC CPA fleet. If so,it remains to see how this will play out. Everyone should know that AC will play each CPA provider against each other in order for one of them to secure the flying. If as stated,these might be destined for Jazz,then it's also worth noting that it would likely include a CPA extension beyond 2020. Interesting times ahead.


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:11 pm 
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Skywest (United Express) already has a fleet of 36 CRJ900's....I might be thinking about that a little bit going into the negotiations after the expression of the AC CEO to be open to US regionals providing CPA lift.


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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:19 pm 
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Some would call it 'concessions', others would call it 'change'. Either way, status quo will not prevail for the CPA between CHR and AC nor will status quo prevail in the collective agreements in force at Jazz.

I would guess that AC expects a degree of cost change at Jazz that mirrors what has transpired at the mainline. There are different ways to skin the cat but the cat will have to be skinned in order for AC to commit to extending the commercial relationship including fleet substitutions.

Nobody knows if this order is part of that discussion but it would not be a surprise. Nor would an announcement of conversion of the remaining 9 outstanding Q400 options that belong to CHR. It is entirely possible that in 5 years Jazz will only be operating aircraft configured at 74/75 seats. The resulting increased efficiency and corresponding unit cost reduction would be significant.



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:56 pm 
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rudder wrote:
Some would call it 'concessions', others would call it 'change'. Either way, status quo will not prevail for the CPA between CHR and AC nor will status quo prevail in the collective agreements in force at Jazz.

I would guess that AC expects a degree of cost change at Jazz that mirrors what has transpired at the mainline. There are different ways to skin the cat but the cat will have to be skinned in order for AC to commit to extending the commercial relationship including fleet substitutions.

Nobody knows if this order is part of that discussion but it would not be a surprise. Nor would an announcement of conversion of the remaining 9 outstanding Q400 options that belong to CHR. It is entirely possible that in 5 years Jazz will only be operating aircraft configured at 74/75 seats. The resulting increased efficiency and corresponding unit cost reduction would be significant.


Sure call it change....but no pilot should accept any change less than current! Jazz pilots will not join the race to the bottom!



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:16 pm 
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TrailerParkBoy wrote:
rudder wrote:
Some would call it 'concessions', others would call it 'change'. Either way, status quo will not prevail for the CPA between CHR and AC nor will status quo prevail in the collective agreements in force at Jazz.

I would guess that AC expects a degree of cost change at Jazz that mirrors what has transpired at the mainline. There are different ways to skin the cat but the cat will have to be skinned in order for AC to commit to extending the commercial relationship including fleet substitutions.

Nobody knows if this order is part of that discussion but it would not be a surprise. Nor would an announcement of conversion of the remaining 9 outstanding Q400 options that belong to CHR. It is entirely possible that in 5 years Jazz will only be operating aircraft configured at 74/75 seats. The resulting increased efficiency and corresponding unit cost reduction would be significant.


Sure call it change....but no pilot should accept any change less than current! Jazz pilots will not join the race to the bottom!


You make a point,the same one the pilots at Comair and Eagle made. The result;Comair gone,Eagle just accepted concessions after throwing themselves on the sword out of principle.



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:18 am 
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Like I said - there are different ways to skin the cat.

Getting a measurable reduction in gross block hour cost and CASM can be achieved through a combination of means which will include expanding the list of CPA pass through costs that will not be subject to markup, adjusting the CPA markup, maintaining CPA ASM capacity but decreasing airframes via fleet substitution and relative up-gauging, and examining go forward labour expense with a view to creating a declining trend over time.

If the conversations that are alleged to be taking place are substantive and sincere, then I suspect that these and many other factors are being examined.



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:58 pm 
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Quote:
For those Jazz pilots...do not take concessions what-so-ever for the next contract. If AC needs more regional flying, they know who to hire! Neither Sky Regional, nor Georgian, nor any new start up, can complete the increased flying AC has planned to be an International player!


Care to elborate? Sky managed to get their fleet of 20 up and running. I'm not saying it wasn't without struggle. If 24 CRJ are bound to SKY, it will be quite lucrative for junior, lower time Pilots to join a company with 39 jets offering quick upgrades. 24 jets at Jazz won't offer a huge change for a new hire with Jazz's current list. Not unless Jazz manages a flow through program.

I'm not bashing Jazz, I just think you are mistaken if you think Jazz is the only regional that can handle a growth of 24 crj's. Encore has shown us quite easily how you can attract pilots on a garbage contract with the right incentives. If these are bound for Jazz (which I hope they are), they won't be handed to Jazz easily. There will be some negots ahead. if Jazz is getting a fleet renewal it won't be on a 1 for 1 basis.


I will give credit to you and won't remark on GGN. Enough said on that mess.



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 Post subject: Re: Congratulations Jazz
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:13 pm 
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DH772 wrote:

Care to elborate? Sky managed to get their fleet of 20 up and running. I'm not saying it wasn't without struggle. If 24 CRJ are bound to SKY, it will be quite lucrative for junior, lower time Pilots to join a company with 39 jets offering quick upgrades. 24 jets at Jazz won't offer a huge change for a new hire with Jazz's current list. Not unless Jazz manages a flow through program.

I'm not bashing Jazz, I just think you are mistaken if you think Jazz is the only regional that can handle a growth of 24 crj's. Encore has shown us quite easily how you can attract pilots on a garbage contract with the right incentives. If these are bound for Jazz (which I hope they are), they won't be handed to Jazz easily. There will be some negots ahead. if Jazz is getting a fleet renewal it won't be on a 1 for 1 basis.


I will give credit to you and won't remark on GGN. Enough said on that mess.


SKY EMB crews are flying to the CAR's flight time limits due to attrition. Not sure that you could add any more revenue flying and reasonably expect it to be staffed unless a significant number of Jazz pilots were willing to quit and move to SKY.

Single biggest limiting factor for ANYBODY that operates commercial aircraft as a business in the next few years will be the ability to source pilots. And Jazz has the second largest pool of pilots in Canada.

You are wrong - Jazz is in fact the only CPA carrier that could spool up 24 aircraft in short order, particularly if done on a substitution basis. Having said that, it is more likely that the evolution of AC Express to larger fleets of 75 seat jets and props will occur over a 2-5 year time frame.

Whatever direction this is all going to take is going to reveal itself in the not too distant future.



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