Congratulations Jazz

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DH772
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#26 Post by DH772 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:11 pm

That's your opinion but if you have your head in the sand that deep that your convinced Jazz is the only carrier able to undertake this than you sincerely think far too highly of yourself. Just look at Encore. They managed and they have a carrot to dangle.

Edited. Yes on a subsitution basis (ex 2 for 1) Jazz can easily handle said aircrafts. I was referring to pure expansion
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teacher
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#27 Post by teacher » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:49 pm

Can other companies "handle" it? Probably. But which one of them could do it with little to no issues and with the littlest headache to AC? Jazz has proven several times already that it can spool up changes to it's operation very quick whether it be IROPS or fleet changes. More expensive? Yes. But you get what you pay for.
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DH772
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#28 Post by DH772 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:02 pm

Oh I completely agree. I don't think anyone is questioning which company is "best" suited for the job.
From a business perspective though would the BOD see it the same way?
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teacher
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#29 Post by teacher » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:44 pm

Not sure. I don't have access to the true costs of the other CPA providers. It's not only about seat mile costs. When flights are cancelled, passengers stranded and recovery from IROPS or mechanical issues takes longer how much does that cost? Stuff happens and so do bad days but at what time do you consider the cost savings of a quality product?

Wouldn't it be funny though if this order was from another airline not even in Canada?
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rudder
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#30 Post by rudder » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:55 pm

DH772 wrote:That's your opinion but if you have your head in the sand that deep that your convinced Jazz is the only carrier able to undertake this than you sincerely think far too highly of yourself. Just look at Encore. They managed and they have a carrot to dangle.

Edited. Yes on a subsitution basis (ex 2 for 1) Jazz can easily handle said aircrafts. I was referring to pure expansion
Prospective GGN DEC are rumoured to be setting their own individual pay deals.

SKY has left seat attrition rates that are unprecedented.

Encore had to offer WJ seniority numbers to attract enough pilots to fly the planned Q400 expansion.

Jazz accommodated expansion post CCAA that was almost unprecedented. Jazz added an international large aircraft operation from concept to reality in less than 9 months. Jazz just runs day in day out with some of the best operational metrics in Canada. Not an opinion, just fact.

Now back to the original thread.......
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Splash
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#31 Post by Splash » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:22 pm

[/quote]

Having said that, it is more likely that the evolution of AC Express to larger fleets of 75 seat jets and props will occur over a 2-5 year time frame.

Whatever direction this is all going to take is going to reveal itself in the not too distant future.[/quote]

I think we can all agree on that. For Jazz,I simply see a fleet upgauge/downsize with a contract extension.
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Radiocaster
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#32 Post by Radiocaster » Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:43 am

The last 8 years had showed me that when an aircraft buyer is anonymous, it always some asian startup that doesn't want the competition to ramp up their fleet at the same pace. That said, I agree with most of you guys. I see a upgage with a decrease of airframes at Jazz in the near future. Let's just hope that this new year will be a good one.
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Joe Blow Schmo
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#33 Post by Joe Blow Schmo » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:29 am

Geez guys, nice to be thinking positively, but this order could be from Garuda Indonesia or Iraqi Airways for all you know!

A whole thread dedicated to arguing over which AC CPA provider is better suited to operated the new RJs that might not even be for AC.
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Stinky
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#34 Post by Stinky » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:05 am

Joe Blow Schmo wrote:Geez guys, nice to be thinking positively, but this order could be from Garuda Indonesia or Iraqi Airways for all you know!

A whole thread dedicated to arguing over which AC CPA provider is better suited to operated the new RJs that might not even be for AC.
Very true, although the size and timing of the order seem to be a perfect fit.

Either way, fleet renewal is going to happen. What it will be and who will operate it are still up in the air. I think it's very important that we continue to argue, debate and speculate on this because this forum was getting extremely boring.

I'll start...
The reason AC remained anonymous was a form of psychological warfare against regional pilots. They knew crew rooms would be full of rumors, not knowing causes stress which wears you down. We'll slowly methodically receive more information, just enough to keep us guessing, stressed and feeling powerless. Eventually we will have beaten ourselves and each other up enough that we'll be happy to take whatever scraps they offer. It's genius really. Who knows, maybe I'm actually receiving cheques from AC for helping out by posting here. I could be a top secret private contractor.
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TrailerParkBoy
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#35 Post by TrailerParkBoy » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:53 am

DH772 wrote:
For those Jazz pilots...do not take concessions what-so-ever for the next contract. If AC needs more regional flying, they know who to hire! Neither Sky Regional, nor Georgian, nor any new start up, can complete the increased flying AC has planned to be an International player!
Care to elborate? Sky managed to get their fleet of 20 up and running. I'm not saying it wasn't without struggle. If 24 CRJ are bound to SKY, it will be quite lucrative for junior, lower time Pilots to join a company with 39 jets offering quick upgrades. 24 jets at Jazz won't offer a huge change for a new hire with Jazz's current list. Not unless Jazz manages a flow through program.

I'm not bashing Jazz, I just think you are mistaken if you think Jazz is the only regional that can handle a growth of 24 crj's. Encore has shown us quite easily how you can attract pilots on a garbage contract with the right incentives. If these are bound for Jazz (which I hope they are), they won't be handed to Jazz easily. There will be some negots ahead. if Jazz is getting a fleet renewal it won't be on a 1 for 1 basis.

I will give credit to you and won't remark on GGN. Enough said on that mess.
When Sky Reg started up with 5 turbo prop, they had trouble. When Sky Reg started up the EMJ, they managed to grab all retired AC pilots available who lined up for the exit shortly after. Yeah good for the junior pilot looking for shiny jet time, but a terrible long term model (#racetothebottom).

Now fast forward to summer 2016 when the over due Fatigue rules are introduced! Regionals will be directly hit by this....why? Because regionals fly way too much as it is!
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tdp19
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#36 Post by tdp19 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:57 am

Coincidently, 3 week's ago I heard from a reliable source that AC/JAZZ would be putting in an order for 20+ RJ900 (705) before christmas. Rumour has it that AC want's 90-100 RJ705/EMB175 spooled up within the next few year's to feed there international growth. I think there will be a lot of surprised people out there in the upcoming month's on what Jazz will look like year's down the road.
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Inverted2
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#37 Post by Inverted2 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:06 am

GGN can barely operate what flying they have now. The other day almost every RJ & 1900 GGN flight was delayed on the status board at the airport and the weather wasn't bad anywhere they fly.
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Splash
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#38 Post by Splash » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:55 am

tdp19 wrote:Coincidently, 3 week's ago I heard from a reliable source that AC/JAZZ would be putting in an order for 20+ RJ900 (705) before christmas. Rumour has it that AC want's 90-100 RJ705/EMB175 spooled up within the next few year's to feed there international growth. I think there will be a lot of surprised people out there in the upcoming month's on what Jazz will look like year's down the road.
From what I understood,the new AC mainline pilot agreement still restricts the amount of 76 seat jets to 60. If Jazz already has 16 and adds 24(Good-bye 200's),that will make 40. Sky Regional has 15 E75,together that's 55,leaving room for and additional 5 to take the total to 60. What is not restricted is the amount of DH4,as the scope language only restricts the amount of fins in the CPA. I personally foresee more DH4 coming online,perhaps as mentioned already,Jazz will exercise their other 9 options and possibly take more. If that were to happen,it will likely be tied in with the removal of the DH1 fleet. Longer term,it's my guess that at the end of the current Jazz CPA,all the DH3 will be removed from the Jazz fleet,not necessarily the CPA fleet. None of what I've said has any basis in truth,just speculation like everyone else.
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razorblade
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#39 Post by razorblade » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:00 am

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ ... .2FCRJ1000

As a Jazz guy I see a lot of confirmation bias here. Sure I'd love to fly a brand new RJ (and then the other 24) but There's so many RJ operators out there (I'm too lazy to count down the list.) The timing may be right but the odds still aren't that high.
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TheStig
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#40 Post by TheStig » Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:58 pm

I understand the confusion around scope because their are three separate layers in the ACPA/AC collective agreement including (but not limited to) ties to the growth at the mainline widebody/narrow body fleet inclusively, Fin ratios between mainline and CPA, 'trade-in' credits on existing older CPA aircraft and a number of other smaller factors which individually include restrictions and fleet flexibility.

With AC meeting the fleet gauruntee in the ACPA contract their is a limit of 80 <76 seat jets, not 60. This could swell to slightly over 100 if AC is able to successfully execute its growth plan. The Q400 limit is also in the hundreds although it's largely based on trading in current Dash' and RJ's.

The current scope language, while complex, was a huge portion of the negotiations that led to the current pilot CA at AC. By most accounts, and my opinion, it should allow the airline to successfully grow and provide the nessesary regional aircraft acquisition flexibility while ensuring mainline pilots aren't left out in the cold while the regionals grow disproportionately.
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PROC_HDG
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#41 Post by PROC_HDG » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:43 pm

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volez
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#42 Post by volez » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:21 am

So, would that Asian airline be a start-up ?
Has anybody heard anything about it ?
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Kosiw
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#43 Post by Kosiw » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:04 pm

So does anyone have any new info as to who is getting the 24 crjs from a mystery buyer that was reported last month?

Is it Jazz Sky or another AC connector.....or some foreign outfit.
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teacher
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#44 Post by teacher » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:13 pm

I've heard foriegn.
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vref
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#45 Post by vref » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:30 am

Another rumour put to bed. I love this website :lol:

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media-cent ... ercom.html
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wrongway
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Re: Congratulations Jazz

#46 Post by wrongway » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:10 am

Already posted
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