TrailerParkBoy wrote:@loopa
Jazz is only sinking if the water level drops due to like-minded pilots like you keep taking jobs at cheap companies like Sky Regional, Georgian and like you say, eventually Jetlines.
Jazz has a pension, a strong union, and probably 1200 or more pilots who dont want to flow to AC and just want to stay at jazz!
I don't usually like getting involved in debates with people that I don't know anything about. But I think you deserve a reply to clarify some things.
Where did you get the wind that I am ok with accepting jobs at places like that and that I'm anything close to like-minded individuals that drive this industry down? If you read my original post you see that I didn't support this entire thing as good news unless I've missed something and it actually is positive for anyone?
loopa wrote:Not that this link is accurate, but gives us a base figure.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... anada_jazz
1434 pilot's at Jazz. 122 frames. Roughly 12 pilots / airframe.
By 2025 there will be 86, meaning 36 frames lost. At 12 pilots / airframe = 432 pilot's that will flow over in the next 10 years.
I heard 700 new hires and 500 retirements in the next 10 years at AC. These are rough figures, so if I'm wrong please do correct me.
That's 1200 new hires in the next 10 years. 432 coming from Jazz = 36% flow through.
So what happens to the other 1002 pilot's when 2025 comes? They will be on a b-scale salary and having to wait until flowing over to AC on an extension that doesn't go past 2025 - meaning will they even have jobs?
So is it really good news you guys? Sounds to me like the ship is still sinking but 432 souls will get out alive. Unless the 1002 people are going to be hitting retirement in the next 10 years. The math doesn't add up, roughly 1200 pilot's required at mainline, over 1434 pilot's required to flow over (not taking into account retirements). So then even if you wanted to go to AC, you wouldn't get there as a new hire at Jazz today. Maybe I'm missing something in which case I apologize for my poor analogy of this news.
CanadianEh wrote:@loopa
You are completely naive if you think every single jazz pilot will flow through to Air Canada
Read the post above, I didn't believe everyone would flow from Jazz. But then people jumped on me for saying that and corrected me with figures supporting that they would flow. What do I know? I'm as clueless as everyone in this thread about what the future of Jazz actually is. But some analogies sure do seem to make sense when you think about it. I wrote my analogy and somehow my opinion on what will happen to Jazz turned into identifying me as the type of person that would go to Jazz on a b-scale salary, or jetlines, or nut cracker airways
Love the good'ol avcanada etiquette and poor assumptions. Read my caveat, "Good news to the ones affected positively by this." Meaning the rest that aren't affected positively by this are seriously screwed. Am I the only one that reads it that way?
This is terrible news. You are removing current Jazz pilot's (possibly forcing them to go to AC), or offering them to stay at Jazz with a pay cut. You will have a jazz that is either joining the race to the bottom, or a completely new company like Jetlines doing CPA flying for cheap starting 2021 onwards. I don't see Jazz sticking around. Unless of course it is due to like-minded individuals
unlike me that keep applying and taking jobs there... like any Jazz applicant still applying for a job with this new piece of information.
rxl wrote:Yeah yeah, "Flow through blah, blah, blah".
The fact is 500 or 600, maybe more, really good jobs are going to be removed from the industry to be replaced with what?
Read my original post above, I'm in full agreement with you.
You're hanging the wrong guy here gentlemen!