New CPA and flowthrough to Air Canada?

[FlyHigh13]

Got it. Thank you.

[Canoehead]

NBG also helps. And with the new TA, unlimited WDO's (1.5x).

[Stinky]

Pretty good benefits: Chiro, massage, dental, drug etc etc etc
Very good short and long term disability insurance

Remember you pay for these as well as your ALPA dues so you may find your take home less than expected. Somebody will have to post more accurate numbers, but I think family dental was something like $2000 a year. If you have a spouse with benefits, these can be waived.

The Per Diems are generous but $12K to $15K seems a tad high. That would be the case if you never took a vacation and worked overtime and 4 day pairings. If you're on reserve you may have some pretty lean months and a month with vacation is a noticeable reduction too.

[ourkid2000]

These numbers blow my mind....

I am no pilot, I'm an AME. However, what kind of a person would accept 36k a year for a F/O position? I made that kind of money as a Ramp Rat 15 years ago! Sheesh, I bet I could dig out an old ROE from those days to prove it.

[Mig29]

sad, isn't it??

I mean we are talking about 2015, and I remember years ago, AC was offering entry lever pay of around 34K/year....someone correct me if I'm wrong.

And now we are back at those SAME pay rates. Brutal, I agree.

[TopperHarley]

When I started in Jazz in '08, the pay was around $37000. Starting pay at AC was around $39000 up until a few years ago.

[ourkid2000]

Pffft....

I have to say, I am amazed you guys still do this for a living. Anyone who accepts that kind of money is selling themselves unbelievably short and honestly, you get what you deserve.

If I was a pilot and was offered that kind of money to start and, at the same time, my local McDonalds 5 mins from my house offered me a similar wage (which in this case is probably not far off)..........I would take the McDonalds job. I'm not even ****'ing joking.

I'm serious. I would take the McDonalds job every time. I bet in 15 years, I'd be making 70K at McDonalds too.

[Mig29]

But there are not shiny metal tubes at McDonald's, right???

[teacher]

I'm in no way defending that pay rate. It can't be defended, it sucks, no doubt.

The numbers were a very quick ipad calculator mash up. I used 82.5 hour blocking average and maybe a little high on per diems. Maybe closer to $12-$14,000 depending on what kind of flying you do. Doing four 4 day pairings I easily exceed $1000 a month per diems. Don't know the exact numbers.

As for including everything, compensation is the total package. I was talking to a friend at another Canadian airline about benefits. The phrase "not covered" came up a lot. Unlike ours at Jazz where I am covered.

[ourkid2000]

That "covered" you speak of.....what's that costing you? Your benefits are hideously expensive from what I've seen.......perhaps this has improved?

[Splash]

What would the pure hourly rate be for a starting FO? Based off what block? Is the reserve guarantee less?
I don't think it's fair to count a shoe allowance and perdiem as to the bottom line of income. That allowance is meant for your food and shoes....unless you eat cookies all day and wear old crappy looking shoes for 5 years. Essentially what I gather is alpa cut the pie up and the mec decided to send some of that money to top up salaries during flow vs keeping the status quo for a new hire. Is that fair to say teacher?

I don't have a horse in the race. In respect to to top-up,it's been posted that the money is ultimately coming from AC as part of the flow-thru agreement with Chorus. What's happening to aviation in Canada is no surprise if you've been watching what has been occurring in the US for years. Thinking it wasn't ever going to happen here would have been foolish.

[aviator242]

When is the ratification vote?

[TrailerParkBoy]

NBG also helps. And with the new TA, unlimited WDO's (1.5x).

I think this is beneficial for the captains more than the FOs!

[Canoehead]

You mean the TA overall?

Because NBG would affect both pilots, and the 1.5 factor is of equal value to Captains and FO's.

Not sure I get your comment.

[teacher]

This entire deal has been set up for one reason and one reason only. To save Air Canada money over the long term. They are the biggest benficiary of this entire process.

When all the details of the TA and flow through are released you will see that this PMA was definetly what ALPA called the "carrot and the stick". Not all rainbows and dollar signs as many non Jazz folks seem to think.

[Squid]

When they were cutting up the chunk of money I'm wondering what the reasoning was behind lowering the starting wage. Why did alpa let it go this way? After all this time of being what was perceived to be the crusader in the Canadian industry. So where did they put the money instead of starting wages?

[socrates]

The reason they let this go is because all other contract provisions were made equal across the pilot group. Same benefits same allowances same perdiems.

The group took a hit in order for the new hires to have everything else in line with the remainder of the group.

The justification in the wage rate cut was that now with the continued movement a new hire will see the left seat in about 4-5 years maybe less. Which would still put them in a hire pay rate then someone on the property today with equivalent years of service.

Nothing could be done about the pension not many employers are providing defined benefit plans anymore.

As for take home pay.

36/hour * 82(average) = approximately $1850 take home after dedcutions.

per diems average $84/ per day $1000-$1200 per month.

There is also the Employee share ownership plan and profit sharing plan which would presently add about another months pay
to your pocket.

As was said earlier lots of opportunity for overtime and anything over 85 hours pays overtime.

Still the best scheduling and work rules of any employer.

[teacher]

When they were cutting up the chunk of money I'm wondering what the reasoning was behind lowering the starting wage. Why did alpa let it go this way? After all this time of being what was perceived to be the crusader in the Canadian industry. So where did they put the money instead of starting wages?

What Socrates said is all correct. Also, as I mentioned in a previous post realistically cutting someone's pay in the last few years of their career during their peak earning years prior to retirement is a not only a hard pill to swallow but potentially detrimental to someone's post working years. People at the bottom of the list often left within 6 months to 2 years as well so investing in that group provided few benefits to the company where as if someone stayed their pay went up faster after a couple years. As well, with this agreement people will get upgraded much faster OR flow to Air Canada.

Fair deal? No, not for anyone except maybe those about to leave which is why it's structured this way to make it easier for those to leave the company both senior and junior pilots. Cutting a senior pilot's salary a few year before retirement means that they will be forced to stay longer and therefore defeats Air Canda's goal of getting rid of those on the current pay scale.

[Mig29]

Ok, so how much pay loss would each one of guys on the property if they took a $1-2 cut in order to keep the bottom pay rates the same? Simple math says about $80-160/month, if you use 80hr monthly block. So after taxes that would be a cut of anywhere from $30-80 depending on what tax bracket do you fall in. Is that a huge penalty?

Not saying I agree or not, all I'm saying, is that a high price to pay for keeping the integrity of our industry leading contract?

[Squid]

Fair enough but just from where I look in it seems fairly consessionary for an agreement and sets the tone (poorly) for a new hire which is the future. Alpa pooped the bed