In the Pool.

Discuss topics relating to Jazz Aviation LP.

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HatHat
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In the Pool.

Post by HatHat » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:27 pm

When you're told "you're in the pool," how solid is this?

I'm wondering if it is typically a long wait for a ground school invite and what is the likelihood that you'll even get one?

Thanks.
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rigpiggy
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by rigpiggy » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:35 pm

depends on how big a fish you are, they always take biggest fish first. however they keep restocking the pond.........
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ant_321
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by ant_321 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:37 am

I was in the pool less than a month when I was offered a ground school. I turned it down for a better opportunity. With all the hiring going on I doubt you will have to wait too long.
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Rowdy
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by Rowdy » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:00 am

Anyone with a rough estimate on time frame from Sim to the call back for references/medical or the PFO?
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Maver!ck
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by Maver!ck » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:05 pm

Rowdy wrote:Anyone with a rough estimate on time frame from Sim to the call back for references/medical or the PFO?
PFO is usally pretty quick, 1-2 days after interview or sim.

If you don't get any news thats good news !
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Rcs-68
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by Rcs-68 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:33 am

have done the sim eval more than 3 weeks ago and still no news. No PFO no calls back. Anyone in the same boat? Can it take 4 weeks or more for them to give an answer? This waiting game is not funny at all...
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forcedwhore
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by forcedwhore » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:04 pm

Guys, Seriously? Are you all really stressing out that much over getting a job that pays $37 G's a year?
For @#$! Sakes Jazz pilots make me sick.
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upintheair_
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by upintheair_ » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:00 pm

forcedwhore wrote:Guys, Seriously? Are you all really stressing out that much over getting a job that pays $37 G's a year?
For @#$! Sakes Jazz pilots make me sick.
Get lost.
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TrailerParkBoy
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by TrailerParkBoy » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:31 pm

forcedwhore wrote:Guys, Seriously? Are you all really stressing out that much over getting a job that pays $37 G's a year?
For @#$! Sakes Jazz pilots make me sick.
Don't be such a douche!

In fact, it wasn't so long ago that AC paid their young $40000 a year!

What sucks about Jazz Pilots new payscale is the fact that it will take 4 years before they clear $40000, unless they trade lifestyle for company preferred Overtime!
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by Canoehead » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:50 pm

Don't feed the troll.

One look at his profile makes it pretty clear he's not worth any response.
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by DanWEC » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:52 pm

What sucks about Jazz Pilots new payscale is the fact that it will take 4 years before they clear $40000, unless they trade lifestyle for company preferred Overtime!
Wow. I thought maybe the second year... Is that fact? Gross? If so, that just dropped my happy level a bit. That's a death sentence if you want to even think about starting a family, or drive anything but a Kia.
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by TrailerParkBoy » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:33 pm

As of January 2015.

Minimum guarantee pay is 77.5 hrs per month. I can see 82.5 hrs per month being the new norm! I'll let you do the math!
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DanWEC
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by DanWEC » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:05 pm

Whew. Upgrades typically around the 4 year mark I'm assuming? No wonder they've been dropping their requirements so much. Don't many 703's have a better scale for King Airs?
Frick. No way I could take nearly a half decade of that pay as a 37 year old guy, thought it was a bit better.
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by TrailerParkBoy » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:31 pm

The most junior Captain awarded a Captain seat was hired April 2011 and won't be trained until March 2016!

The majority of pilots upgrading now we're hired in 2006.

Still a long wait...and when the PML list is exhausted, riga mortise will set in just as it was before the PML was introduced!
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DanWEC
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by DanWEC » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:35 pm

Isn't there more to the salary than just the straight hourly? Always hearing from people quoting big t4's from Jazz, which would be great. I have to think it can't be that bad... are they really on the same level now as GGN and Evas?
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by Pratt X 3 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:38 am

DanWEC wrote:I have to think it can't be that bad... are they really on the same level now as GGN and Evas?
Congrats! You've cracked the Air Canada Regional Lift code and figured out their 10+ year plan.
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Mart
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by Mart » Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:51 am

DanWEC wrote:Isn't there more to the salary than just the straight hourly? Always hearing from people quoting big t4's from Jazz, which would be great. I have to think it can't be that bad... are they really on the same level now as GGN and Evas?
Thats because you're probably speaking with older guys flying for Jazz, those who were so desperate to leave Jazz for AC that vote YES to these new low wage given to new hires. Otherwise thats it 36.72$ per credit first year plus whatever overtime you are willing to do and able to find. Some will talk about the highest per diem too and the overall better health and pension package, so they are still above GCN and EVAS but thats not on your T4.

Good luck.
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by mbav8r » Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:10 am

Mart wrote:
DanWEC wrote:Isn't there more to the salary than just the straight hourly? Always hearing from people quoting big t4's from Jazz, which would be great. I have to think it can't be that bad... are they really on the same level now as GGN and Evas?
Thats because you're probably speaking with older guys flying for Jazz, those who were so desperate to leave Jazz for AC that vote YES to these new low wage given to new hires. Otherwise thats it 36.72$ per credit first year plus whatever overtime you are willing to do and able to find. Some will talk about the highest per diem too and the overall better health and pension package, so they are still above GCN and EVAS but thats not on your T4.

Good luck.
You clearly have a grade 2 level of logic and comprehension of the current environment!
I'll spell it out for you as it has been many, many times in many different threads on this subject but there is even more information now, that in my mind solidifies my choice and I'm sure most of the Jazz pilots who voted yes.
First, a NO vote would have sealed our fate of looking for a new job December 31st 2020 and guess what, it would have been for GGN and Sky wages.
Second, a NO vote would have most certainly meant that there would have been NO pilots hired at Jazz, making our industry leading wages and working conditions moot. So holding on to them benifited absolutely no pilot.
As proof I offer the fact that we voted yes, the contract passed and still GGN is growing to 20 RJs, the very ones we are reducing from our fleet. In addition Sky is also getting more E175s, can't remember how many but regardless they are growing and we were told that a yes vote meant we would be competitive enough to bid and get new work from AC, apparently this was a lie.
Third, we were told, when the question was raised at the road shows, "aren't you worried we won't attract pilots with those new wages?" I'm paraphrasing but basically they would know in a few months if they lowered it too much, if they weren't able to find new pilots. Well the pilots who come to Jazz under the new terms can only blames themselves for accepting those wages.
Fourth, a good portion of the yes votes are not going to AC, about half of the pilots aren't on the PML, of the PML pilots a good portion are retiring, a bunch more are likely not going, some are not sure and just wanted the choice and some absolutely wanted to go but to say we were desperate to go to AC is a gross mischaracterization of reality.
More to the point, a yes vote meant some movement from the stagnation we were experiencing for years, it worked, there are many upgrades going on and as the list shrinks it will slow down but don't forget of half the pilots who are staying ie; not on the list, a significant portion of them will be retiring over the next several years.
Does any of this make it ok, not really but I can say almost certainly YOU would have voted yes, if you were in my shoes. Go ahead and deny it but you're only kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
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biatch
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by biatch » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:39 am

You should wait before calling it a lie. Something is coming up.
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by teacher » Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:30 pm

Anyone in the know was well aware that a NO vote accomplished nothing. We we're check mated by AC, Jazz, Georgian, Sky Regional and Encore. Adapt or die. It's the new reality unfortunately.

If you can I tell me what would have been accomplished had we fought AC and Jazz I'm all ears.
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TrailerParkBoy
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by TrailerParkBoy » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:05 pm

Adapt or die...that is a good one.

We didn't "adopt", because, salaries for 100% of the pre-contract pilots got a 2% pay raise. Only new hires salary was slashed! It will take more then 10 years to lower the salary budget to a point to be competitive!

Why wasn't the "New Business Model" that Jazz introduced to us mentioned in the contract road show? This must have been known at the time! I'm sure if we were informed, things would be different!
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Mart
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by Mart » Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:09 pm

mbav8r wrote: You clearly have a grade 2 level of logic and comprehension of the current environment!
First why are you such a bully? You don't know me or my education level. Keep your free insult for yourself.
mbav8r wrote: First, a NO vote would have sealed our fate of looking for a new job December 31st 2020 and guess what, it would have been for GGN and Sky wages.
If you really think a publicly trade company making millions in profit every year will just shut down because of a collective employee disagreement... THAT'S a grade 2 knowledge in business and economy. I repeat the company was making profit and still is as of today, record profits in the last quater.
mbav8r wrote: Second, a NO vote would have most certainly meant that there would have been NO pilots hired at Jazz, making our industry leading wages and working conditions moot. So holding on to them benifited absolutely no pilot.

So Air Canada, Transat, West Jet... etc wouldn't hire any pilot if Jazz votes NO, come on. Even if you voted NO, you could still apply to any of those mainlines and leave a seat open for someone else at Jazz, or if you didn't want to leave Jazz, the previously mentioned airlines would still hired people off the street.
mbav8r wrote:Third, we were told, when the question was raised at the road shows, "aren't you worried we won't attract pilots with those new wages?" I'm paraphrasing but basically they would know in a few months if they lowered it too much, if they weren't able to find new pilots. Well the pilots who come to Jazz under the new terms can only blames themselves for accepting those wages.
So following your logic, those new pilots should just stay unemployed and get a nice 500$ a month social insurance check instead of working.
mbav8r wrote: More to the point, a yes vote meant some movement from the stagnation we were experiencing for years, it worked, there are many upgrades going on and as the list shrinks it will slow down but don't forget of half the pilots who are staying ie; not on the list, a significant portion of them will be retiring over the next several years.
Does any of this make it ok, not really but I can say almost certainly YOU would have voted yes, if you were in my shoes. Go ahead and deny it but you're only kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Again, AC, Transat, WestJet, Sunwing and many other are hiring for the coming years because of growth and retirement, with or without a Jazz PML you would have seen movement and upgrade.

My point still stand, the one who could have made a difference are the one who were able to vote. Do you really think the 60% non voter at the last federal election are the one who made the government change it's politic. Also, if you think your company needed to be more competitive by lowering the wages why not come with an all inclusive collective agreement then, like wage freeze for couple of years or -2% for everyone instead of a crazy -10% to -15% wage for new guy only, and signing bonus and wage increase for the current employees. Some years ago women fought for their rights to have the same wage as man for the same work. Now our children will have to do the same in the coming years and fight for their rights to have the same wage as their parents for the same work.
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AirMail
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by AirMail » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:51 am

If you really think a publicly trade company making millions in profit every year will just shut down because of a collective employee disagreement... THAT'S a grade 2 knowledge in business and economy. I repeat the company was making profit and still is as of today, record profits in the last quater.
This is true. Earlier I thought the Jazz union had their backs up against the wall, but the fact is that above. Also who would hypothetically replace Jazz if AC said GTFO? - GGN? SKY? I'd really like to see how they'd ramp up a smooth transition and keep AC happy as good and long as Jazz has.
Only new hires salary was slashed! It will take more then 10 years to lower the salary budget to a point to be competitive!
Also what is telling that way too much was given up by ALPA is the fact months later Jazz buys Voyaguer for 80 million! Add the salary top up for those on the PML going to AC.. more millions spent. Where is the competitiveness? Will Jazz ALPA push another negative contract in 2025 in order to be "competitive" again? Whilest Chorus goes and spend millions more on some other venture shortly after again? Some strong kool aid was handed out at that roadshow IMO.
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by iflyroads » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:14 am

This is true. Earlier I thought the Jazz union had their backs up against the wall, but the fact is that above. Also who would hypothetically replace Jazz if AC said GTFO? - GGN? SKY? I'd really like to see how they'd ramp up a smooth transition and keep AC happy as good and long as Jazz has.
I thought about this as well. I remember at that time GGN was trying to get their RJ flying going and had some issues. Sky had a few of their OC's pulled at airports down in the states due to pilots not following STARs. Jazz was able to pick up the extra flying because of this and "maintain AC's integrity."

AC knows the value in Jazz with a fleet size of 100+ airplanes and close to 5000 employees (Wikipedia stats here)...there is no way that AC would be able to replace Jazz without it having any serious implications on their service, no matter how many planes they push at SKY or how many GGN acquires.

Maybe its because I'm sitting on the other side of the fence but I just saw this as selling out the future for short term gain. But there is no way of definitively proving either argument is correct, so in the end all we have is opinions, this is mine, which many of you may find wrong or misinformed. But that's what forums and discussions are for.

Out of curiosity how is the PML going? Lots of hires at AC from Jazz? or are they taking GGN and SKY pilots first...?
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HatHat
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Re: In the Pool.

Post by HatHat » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:34 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone. For those who were asking, it was about 2 weeks to a month between interview and sim, then the same for the rest.

Still curious about 2 things.

Does anyone know about any upcoming groundschools? I've been waiting in the pool for a while now.... Longer than most people seem to say.

Also, do people just sit in the pool and never get ground schools?

Any insight would be helpful,

Thanks folks.
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