Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two years.

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JoeyBarton
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#26 Post by JoeyBarton » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:48 am

Especially when the name calling jazz fellow voted a B scale for his own peers. Woww
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biatch
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#27 Post by biatch » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:04 am

There is no B scale at Jazz
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#28 Post by newcomer » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:47 am

biatch wrote:There is no B scale at Jazz
Yes there is. You're only kidding yourself if you don't think it's a B scale :roll:
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#29 Post by biatch » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:50 am

The rolling of the eyes thing doesn't change the fact that you're totally wrong and/or misinformed. There is no B scale at Jazz.
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#30 Post by newcomer » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:02 am

You can play on words all you want if it makes you feel better :goodman: the fact remains that the salary of a newhire is a lot less than what it was before the new contract.
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#31 Post by biatch » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:15 am

And salaries change with the times. There is no B scale. A new hire will attain the same salaries as pre-contract employees. I don't think you understand the term "B Scale". There is no play on words.
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cdnpilot77
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#32 Post by cdnpilot77 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:28 am

biatch wrote:And salaries change with the times. There is no B scale. A new hire will attain the same salaries as pre-contract employees. I don't think you understand the term "B Scale". There is no play on words.
The question isn't "are they going to attain the same salaries"

it is:

"if pilot A was hired the day before the new contract and pilot B was hired the day after the new contract and both work 30years to the day at Jazz, will their earnings over the course of the 30years be the same?"

Yes or no?
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#33 Post by JZA Dxer » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:08 am

The B scale has been blended into the current pay scale for a lot of groups. While technically there is no B scale, all the employees who were around when the B scale existed know that it is still there even though there is no A and B scale on paper.
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#34 Post by JZA Dxer » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:11 am

On a side note Tails 422 to 434 are all going to have the 78 seat config. as per the memo I read today.
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#35 Post by TrailerParkBoy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:27 am

Is this 1 scale or 2?

Look carefully and see both of these scales meet up at -40!
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#36 Post by TrailerParkBoy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:32 am

Here are 2 more different scales! Call them what you want!

You say Table, I say Scale!
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#37 Post by AirMail » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:19 pm

Such a roll back! Takes 5 yrs on new scale to make yr 1 on old scale
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#38 Post by DropTanks » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:24 pm

What does the Captain side look like?
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#39 Post by newcomer » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:51 pm

If it's not a B scale then I don't know what it is. But then again I am misinformed...
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#40 Post by AirMail » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:35 pm

Meanwhile regional pilots being interviewed in regards to race to the bottom be like

Image
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#41 Post by Stinky » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:03 am

DropTanks wrote:What does the Captain side look like?
It's another "not a B scale" situation. I believe before the new contract you would be paid based on your years of service, now you start at year 1 captain pay once you upgrade even if you've been at Jazz for 10 years.
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#42 Post by Maxpwr » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:54 pm

Stinky wrote:
DropTanks wrote:What does the Captain side look like?
It's another "not a B scale" situation. I believe before the new contract you would be paid based on your years of service, now you start at year 1 captain pay once you upgrade even if you've been at Jazz for 10 years.
Does that apply to all new upgrades? Or only those hired after this contract?
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#43 Post by TrailerParkBoy » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:00 pm

Pay Scale for those hired Prior to Contract
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New Hire payscale
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I've never seen a pay scale where the FO makes more then a Captain!
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#44 Post by TrailerParkBoy » Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:06 pm

Maxpwr wrote:
Stinky wrote:
DropTanks wrote:What does the Captain side look like?
It's another "not a B scale" situation. I believe before the new contract you would be paid based on your years of service, now you start at year 1 captain pay once you upgrade even if you've been at Jazz for 10 years.
Does that apply to all new upgrades? Or only those hired after this contract?
It applies to all who would be on the B Scale (New Hire) Pay Scale.

This includes New Hires and those who signed up on the PML but turn down the AC Interview or turn down the AC job offer, including those captains who have been at Jazz for 17+ years and gets bumped off the CRJ or Q400 to fly the Classic!
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#45 Post by TheStig » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:56 am

Time to move on. ALPA, it's Jazz members, and the airline did what needed to be done to survive. Air Canada needs its employees to be paid market rates, just that simple, this contract was a foregone conclusion the days Encore opened its doors.

I think everyone on this forum would love to see all pilots in this country earning at a minimum a 6 figure salary, and personally, I think we deserve every penny. However, it's important to look at the current environment before you start pointing fingers. If ALPA hadn't created this pay scale what do you think would have happened? If Jazz's pilots had walked off the job they would have either faced the same situation the mainline pilots did in 2012 and had an even worse contract forced upon them. More likely, they would have simply watched from the picket line as their flying was absorbed by Mainline, Sky Regional and Georgian and found themselves unemployed. Pilots at Jazz were well aware of this and voted accordingly, any of us in the same situation would have done the same, so please get off your soap boxes.
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#46 Post by cdnpilot77 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:00 pm

TheStig wrote:Time to move on. ALPA, it's Jazz members, and the airline did what needed to be done to survive. Air Canada needs its employees to be paid market rates, just that simple, this contract was a foregone conclusion the days Encore opened its doors.

I think everyone on this forum would love to see all pilots in this country earning at a minimum a 6 figure salary, and personally, I think we deserve every penny. However, it's important to look at the current environment before you start pointing fingers. If ALPA hadn't created this pay scale what do you think would have happened? If Jazz's pilots had walked off the job they would have either faced the same situation the mainline pilots did in 2012 and had an even worse contract forced upon them. More likely, they would have simply watched from the picket line as their flying was absorbed by Mainline, Sky Regional and Georgian and found themselves unemployed. Pilots at Jazz were well aware of this and voted accordingly, any of us in the same situation would have done the same, so please get off your soap boxes.
Easy to say when you ARE making well into the 6 figures!

Edit: I have no dog in this fight and very happy where I am, but t & c's effect us all, except for those at the top.
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#47 Post by BingBong » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:13 am

cdnpilot77 wrote:
TheStig wrote:Time to move on. ALPA, it's Jazz members, and the airline did what needed to be done to survive. Air Canada needs its employees to be paid market rates, just that simple, this contract was a foregone conclusion the days Encore opened its doors.

I think everyone on this forum would love to see all pilots in this country earning at a minimum a 6 figure salary, and personally, I think we deserve every penny. However, it's important to look at the current environment before you start pointing fingers. If ALPA hadn't created this pay scale what do you think would have happened? If Jazz's pilots had walked off the job they would have either faced the same situation the mainline pilots did in 2012 and had an even worse contract forced upon them. More likely, they would have simply watched from the picket line as their flying was absorbed by Mainline, Sky Regional and Georgian and found themselves unemployed. Pilots at Jazz were well aware of this and voted accordingly, any of us in the same situation would have done the same, so please get off your soap boxes.
Easy to say when you ARE making well into the 6 figures!

Edit: I have no dog in this fight and very happy where I am, but t & c's effect us all, except for those at the top.

Your right it does affect you all. Imagine if sky and Georgian took over everything at THEIR rates. What would your 703/704 companies be offering you then???
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#48 Post by teacher » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:33 am

cdnpilot77 wrote:
TheStig wrote:Time to move on. ALPA, it's Jazz members, and the airline did what needed to be done to survive. Air Canada needs its employees to be paid market rates, just that simple, this contract was a foregone conclusion the days Encore opened its doors.

I think everyone on this forum would love to see all pilots in this country earning at a minimum a 6 figure salary, and personally, I think we deserve every penny. However, it's important to look at the current environment before you start pointing fingers. If ALPA hadn't created this pay scale what do you think would have happened? If Jazz's pilots had walked off the job they would have either faced the same situation the mainline pilots did in 2012 and had an even worse contract forced upon them. More likely, they would have simply watched from the picket line as their flying was absorbed by Mainline, Sky Regional and Georgian and found themselves unemployed. Pilots at Jazz were well aware of this and voted accordingly, any of us in the same situation would have done the same, so please get off your soap boxes.
Easy to say when you ARE making well into the 6 figures!

Edit: I have no dog in this fight and very happy where I am, but t & c's effect us all, except for those at the top.
cdnpilot77 it is not easier. TheStig is right and I 'very said it many times before. Nothing would have been gained at this point from fighting AC and Chorus. Our fate was sealed with the introduction of other regional carriers paying "70% of market wages not including Jazz".

What would have AC and Chorus done had we rejected the TA and gone on strike? Paid up? Gave into our demands? The writing was on the wall plain enough for everyone to see. They created a deal that would pass a vote by the membership and attempt to mitigate the pain for new hires. Does it suck that we had to go down this road? Of course! How ever the alternative was a lot less desirable.

Respectfully cdnpilot77 having the good job making the good money that you do without having a dog in this fight and being happy where you are makes it easy for you to stand on the side lines and criticize doesn't it?
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#49 Post by cdnpilot77 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:47 am

Teacher,

Respectively, I don't entirely disagree with you. But where TheStig is wrong is being at the very pinnacle of the game at AC and telling the 90% who will never ever see anywhere but a fraction of his earnings (myself included) in their entire career, to essentially to suck it up. They fought, you fought but we should all just lie down and take it. That's the message.

I would say that it's certainly easier for people in that position to be standing on the sidelines and criticize the lower echelon for wanting more, or at the very least what he had?

I very clearly understand why the situation is what it is, doesn't mean I have to agree with it or the justification of it.
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Re: Fleet growth 5 new Qs, 5 new 705 within the next two ye

#50 Post by TheStig » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:14 am

cdnpilot77 wrote:Teacher,

Respectively, I don't entirely disagree with you. But where TheStig is wrong is being at the very pinnacle of the game at AC and telling the 90% who will never ever see anywhere but a fraction of his earnings (myself included) in their entire career, to essentially to suck it up. They fought, you fought but we should all just lie down and take it. That's the message.

I would say that it's certainly easier for people in that position to be standing on the sidelines and criticize the lower echelon for wanting more, or at the very least what he had?

I very clearly understand why the situation is what it is, doesn't mean I have to agree with it or the justification of it.
Cdnpilot77, your point is taken, I'll try to mind my own business. I certainly didn't intend to sound condescending, I've never considered myself to be at the pinnacle of the game. My intention was to simply offer support to those at Jazz who were forced to deal with a difficult choice and ask that the name calling stop. At AC we've been dealt our lumps too.
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