Commuting/Transfering

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Vguysbuhd
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Commuting/Transfering

#1 Post by Vguysbuhd » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:27 am

Hello Everyone,

Can anyone provide me with information on how commuting works and the wait time to get transferred to a new base?

If I get based in YUL for example how would I commute from out west? Is it easier just to live there or bite the bullet and just commute if the transfer happens quickly enough?

I'm hoping for a YYC/YVR base especially for ski season, but I know that there are rarely any spots being dished out in the current groundschools.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#2 Post by HansDietrich » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:46 pm

Well,

Simply put, COMMUTING SUCKS. With that beings said, lots of people do it and it gets better with seniority.

You are responsible to pay your own way to and from your chosen domicile to your base. If you can prove that you tried to get on at least 2 flights, that arrive at your base at the very latest, at least 30 minutes before your report time, Jazz will not penalize you. There is a "but" in there, where they say, "Common sense must be used" in order to ensure you arrive on time and fit for your duty.

1. You can commute (now) with Air Canada from your DOMICILE to your base, even though you don't have the right to use passes for the first 6 months. On this route alone, you are allowed. Example, if you live in Regina and want to commute to Calgary, you can use Jazz (AC) for that.

2. You can commute with Westjet, flying stand by on their reciprocal jump seat. A lot of pilots do this, because it's actually cheaper than AC (most of the time)

3. You can commute with a car... (if you live within driving distance)

A lot of times you may end up starting your shift early in the morning, so you'll have to get either a hotel or crash pad. This is something that you will have to figure out. What you're willing to take and what not to take. Some hotels offer a Jazz special rate. Ask around for that.

On average, you can look at anywhere between $300 - 500 a month for the cost of flying and $300 - 500 a month for a crash pad / hotel. I'd say budget for $1000, if you're commuting often by air...

Hope this helps.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#3 Post by KenoraPilot » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:42 pm

HansDietrich wrote:Well,

Simply put, COMMUTING SUCKS. With that beings said, lots of people do it and it gets better with seniority.

You are responsible to pay your own way to and from your chosen domicile to your base. If you can prove that you tried to get on at least 2 flights, that arrive at your base at the very latest, at least 30 minutes before your report time, Jazz will not penalize you. There is a "but" in there, where they say, "Common sense must be used" in order to ensure you arrive on time and fit for your duty.

1. You can commute (now) with Air Canada from your DOMICILE to your base, even though you don't have the right to use passes for the first 6 months. On this route alone, you are allowed. Example, if you live in Regina and want to commute to Calgary, you can use Jazz (AC) for that.

2. You can commute with Westjet, flying stand by on their reciprocal jump seat. A lot of pilots do this, because it's actually cheaper than AC (most of the time)

3. You can commute with a car... (if you live within driving distance)

A lot of times you may end up starting your shift early in the morning, so you'll have to get either a hotel or crash pad. This is something that you will have to figure out. What you're willing to take and what not to take. Some hotels offer a Jazz special rate. Ask around for that.

On average, you can look at anywhere between $300 - 500 a month for the cost of flying and $300 - 500 a month for a crash pad / hotel. I'd say budget for $1000, if you're commuting often by air...

Hope this helps.


Yup commuting sucks and Hans has the costs bout right. Some can do it for cheaper but not likely. I commuted YEG-YVR for 7mths and cost me avg $1000-1200/mth.
Now I drive YEG-YYC and I pay only $250 for a room in a house in YYC (even though I could do without it, it makes my life much more reasonable) ie sleep night prior or between a 3 day and 4 day back to back.

Good luck.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#4 Post by Black_Tusk » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:24 pm

As someone who quasi commuted from YVR to YUL while waiting 4 months for a base transfer... just move. Even if it's just temporary you will enjoy yourself much more if you commit to YUL. You can find furnished apartments near transit lines for very reasonable prices.

As for the base transfer it should happen fairly quickly, although things have started to slow down as the bases have become full. But with these new upgrades happening it will open more FO spots again.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#5 Post by prop2jet » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:31 am

If your objective is to move up the seniority list quickly and secure a left seat, then YUL is likely the best place to go and of all the bases probably the cheapest to live in. If you have a family then perhaps a move is not an option but if you are solo, forget commuting, make the move and make the best of your situation.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#6 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:32 am

prop2jet wrote:If your objective is to move up the seniority list quickly and secure a left seat, then YUL is likely the best place to go and of all the bases probably the cheapest to live in. If you have a family then perhaps a move is not an option but if you are solo, forget commuting, make the move and make the best of your situation.
I was just about to write the same thing. If you're single, no commitments (wife, kids, girlfriend, mortgage), pick up, go to YUL and enjoy. It's a great city to experience for a few years.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#7 Post by yycinformer » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:19 pm

HansDietrich wrote:Well,

1. You can commute (now) with Air Canada from your DOMICILE to your base, even though you don't have the right to use passes for the first 6 months. On this route alone, you are allowed. Example, if you live in Regina and want to commute to Calgary, you can use Jazz (AC) for that.

2. You can commute with Westjet, flying stand by on their reciprocal jump seat. A lot of pilots do this, because it's actually cheaper than AC (most of the time)

Just making sure I understand this right...with a reciprocal you still have to pay to hitch a ride (on either WestJet and Air Canada)? I ask simply from flying in the US, with a recip, if there's a seat, you fly free, either in the cabin or cockpit. Is this not a thing in Canada?
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#8 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:33 pm

yycinformer wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:Well,

1. You can commute (now) with Air Canada from your DOMICILE to your base, even though you don't have the right to use passes for the first 6 months. On this route alone, you are allowed. Example, if you live in Regina and want to commute to Calgary, you can use Jazz (AC) for that.

2. You can commute with Westjet, flying stand by on their reciprocal jump seat. A lot of pilots do this, because it's actually cheaper than AC (most of the time)

Just making sure I understand this right...with a reciprocal you still have to pay to hitch a ride (on either WestJet and Air Canada)? I ask simply from flying in the US, with a recip, if there's a seat, you fly free, either in the cabin or cockpit. Is this not a thing in Canada?

Not quite. You still have to pay a Service Charge and Taxes / Fees. You will have access to the Air Canada Employee Travel site right away. This is normally where you can book stand-by travel for yourself and your family (wife, kids, etc) so you can travel. These are your "Travel Benefits". Note that these Travel benefits will not be available for the first 6 months... EXCEPT... to book travel for yourself only, from your home city (DOMICILE) to your BASE.

So, let's say you live in Calgary and you commute to Montreal: You will book a ticket on the Air Canada Employee Travel Site. As an example a one way fare on this route is about $65.00. ($25 service charge, $7 air traveler security charge, $2 GST, $31 airport improvement fee)

When you fly stand by with Air Canada / Jazz / Sky Regional, you are allowed to fly in the actual flight deck, but I believe you have to have a FULL RAIC for that. Some say to be in uniform. Every time I flew in the actual cockpit (once on an A320 and once on the EMB) I was in uniform.

If you want to fly Westjet, you have to book that through the My ID Travel website and it's actually cheaper than AC by 10 - 15 dollars. With this, you are using your "Jumpseat Agreement" though you will never actually fly in the cockpit with this pass. You'll be in the back...

Hope that clears things up

(Edit for spelling and grammar... I'm a pilot, not a writer)
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#9 Post by yycinformer » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:52 pm

Ahh! Ok, that helps a bit. I wish the US and Canada would create some sort of bilateral agreement so we in Canada could take advantage of the CASS system they have in the US. (This is the free jump-seating I was eluding to before.) Only time I ever had to pay then was when I left Canada and the fee was for US CBP.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#10 Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:58 pm

As a Jazz Employee you do not need to be in uniform to sit in the flight deck of AC/Jazz/Sky etc. You also do not require a full RAIC. You just require your Jazz employee travel card and a govt issued ID.
COM 5.9.2.2 & 5.9.2.3
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#11 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:04 pm

yycinformer wrote:Ahh! Ok, that helps a bit. I wish the US and Canada would create some sort of bilateral agreement so we in Canada could take advantage of the CASS system they have in the US. (This is the free jump-seating I was eluding to before.) Only time I ever had to pay then was when I left Canada and the fee was for US CBP.
Well the only time you get to fly in the actual cockpit is (and all 3 points must happen):
1. The flight is FULL - no seats available
2. You request the jump seat
3. The captain approves it.

I've hears someone say that if you fly in the actual jump seat, Air Canada does not charge you for the ticket (that $65 one way I told you about). I can't confirm this
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#12 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:05 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:As a Jazz Employee you do not need to be in uniform to sit in the flight deck of AC/Jazz/Sky etc. You also do not require a full RAIC. You just require your Jazz employee travel card and a govt issued ID.
COM 5.9.2.2 & 5.9.2.3

That is insane! Are you telling me that someone with no RAIC (the thorough background check) can sit in the jumpseat? WTF? Excuse my vulgarity.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#13 Post by infiniteregulus » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:16 pm

If that's the case of no Red RAIC, it's still up to the Captain if they come on or not.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#14 Post by digits_ » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:23 pm

HansDietrich wrote: That is insane! Are you telling me that someone with no RAIC (the thorough background check) can sit in the jumpseat? WTF? Excuse my vulgarity.
Lol, even the captain could possibly have no RAIC. The RAIC has no effect on board the plane, it's just for easier airport access.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#15 Post by HansDietrich » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:19 pm

digits_ wrote:
HansDietrich wrote: That is insane! Are you telling me that someone with no RAIC (the thorough background check) can sit in the jumpseat? WTF? Excuse my vulgarity.
Lol, even the captain could possibly have no RAIC. The RAIC has no effect on board the plane, it's just for easier airport access.
Yeah. I never thought about that... I guess eh? Don't I feel stupid now! ***bows head in shame***
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#16 Post by Rowdy » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:03 pm

HansDietrich wrote: 3. The captain approves it
Twice now I've had the captain tell the gate agent that their JS was not available to 'those jazz guys'.

While I try very hard to make sure we get every AC FA and pilot on, even on longer flights in the jump seat, this has been sort of disheartening. Aren't we striving for some unity? Should we not be pushing for a US style system where anyone with an agreement and CASS can be put up front if necessary?
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#17 Post by HansDietrich » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:12 am

Rowdy wrote:
HansDietrich wrote: 3. The captain approves it
Twice now I've had the captain tell the gate agent that their JS was not available to 'those jazz guys'.

While I try very hard to make sure we get every AC FA and pilot on, even on longer flights in the jump seat, this has been sort of disheartening. Aren't we striving for some unity? Should we not be pushing for a US style system where anyone with an agreement and CASS can be put up front if necessary?

I've had one asshole AC captain that was visibly hesitant to have me in his E190 flight deck. I know it's cramped and all, but I was going to work, not to Palm Springs to play golf. This one time, I'm going to go ahead and say this guy was probably racist toward me. I don't think he was very fond of white people. You could tell...

But to be honesty, 99% of AC pilots are simply awesome and WJ pilots are 100% awesome from my experience. Amazingly nice!
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#18 Post by flymore » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:23 pm

Jumpseating / reciprocal agreements are not just limited to WJ and AC. But they do happen to be on the most common routes and more frequent than the other options.

However, there are FREE jumpseat agreements with Porter, Air Transat, Sunwing and multiple other smaller airlines. Check your OAL (think it stands for Outside Airlines)list if you are with Jazz and you can see all the airlines we can reciprocal agreements with. Each will have their own criteria. For example, AC charges you service charge and taxes. WJ charges you something less (taxes only I think?). Most others are completely free.

Moreover, apart from commuting, you can also use these airlines for personal travel. This is be for multiple airlines, not just limited to Canada. Your ALPA App or website has the complete jumpseat guide. There are about 35-40 airlines around the world where you can use this!

So yes, if you're in the US, you can use your CASS for free jumpseat on many US carriers. It's been mentioned before. But "jumpseating" really just means sitting in the cabin (sometimes an upgrade to business).

One more thing to keep in mind. This is for you only. So if you're planning on travelling with anyone else,(the wife) they'll only be able to use AIr Canada travel benefits. You can use AC benefits AND also your reciprocal jumpseat agreements, giving you lots of options.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#19 Post by av8ts » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:02 am

HansDietrich wrote:
digits_ wrote:
HansDietrich wrote: That is insane! Are you telling me that someone with no RAIC (the thorough background check) can sit in the jumpseat? WTF? Excuse my vulgarity.
Lol, even the captain could possibly have no RAIC. The RAIC has no effect on board the plane, it's just for easier airport access.
Yeah. I never thought about that... I guess eh? Don't I feel stupid now! ***bows head in shame***
Even though the COM says no RAIC required, nobody rides in my jumpseat without one. That way I at least know there has been a background check done. I refused a manager the jumpseat one day because he didn’t have his RAIC. I never heard anything about it after
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#20 Post by KenoraPilot » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:19 pm

av8ts wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:
digits_ wrote:
Lol, even the captain could possibly have no RAIC. The RAIC has no effect on board the plane, it's just for easier airport access.
Yeah. I never thought about that... I guess eh? Don't I feel stupid now! ***bows head in shame***
Even though the COM says no RAIC required, nobody rides in my jumpseat without one. That way I at least know there has been a background check done. I refused a manager the jumpseat one day because he didn’t have his RAIC. I never heard anything about it after


So does that mean you don’t fly with FOs that have a yellow RAIC as they don’t have a security clearance yet?
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#21 Post by HansDietrich » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:38 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
av8ts wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:
Yeah. I never thought about that... I guess eh? Don't I feel stupid now! ***bows head in shame***
Even though the COM says no RAIC required, nobody rides in my jumpseat without one. That way I at least know there has been a background check done. I refused a manager the jumpseat one day because he didn’t have his RAIC. I never heard anything about it after


So does that mean you don’t fly with FOs that have a yellow RAIC as they don’t have a security clearance yet?
Well, I think that's the way it should be.

1. Nobody is allowed in the flight deck without a valid full RAIC (Including crew operating that flight)
2. Make RAIC background checks faster, that way we don't have to have yellow RAICs...

There is a solution to this... make the process more efficient... How? I don't know. I don't work in security services. Find a way... Stop throwing money at usless things and invest it where it's needed.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#22 Post by Splash » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:48 pm

av8ts wrote:
HansDietrich wrote:
digits_ wrote:
Lol, even the captain could possibly have no RAIC. The RAIC has no effect on board the plane, it's just for easier airport access.
Yeah. I never thought about that... I guess eh? Don't I feel stupid now! ***bows head in shame***
Even though the COM says no RAIC required, nobody rides in my jumpseat without one. That way I at least know there has been a background check done. I refused a manager the jumpseat one day because he didn’t have his RAIC. I never heard anything about it after
All Jazz employees technically have access to ride jumpseat at the captain's discretion, it's worth noting that employees outside of air crew and those that work at category I and II airports will not have a RAIC. I'm thinking of those employees at small stations whose only way to travel at times is to request the jumpseat. Small airports require all employees to have a criminal background check that's done at a local police station and are then issued a local airport ID card which is not technically a RAIC as we know it, I believe that policy is mandated by Transport Canada. There are probably many that work in the head office in Halifax that have nothing.
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Re: Commuting/Transfering

#23 Post by Inverted2 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:58 pm

There's 2 different things here, one is physically riding in the jumpseat and the other is the jumpseat agreement. A pilot from Air Creebec can for example use the reciprocal jumpseat agreement and fly on Jazz. I don't know if they have RAIC passes at these companies or not. A Creebec or Bearskin pilot cannot ride in the actual jumpseat on a Jazz aircraft.
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