Captain requirements?

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rudder
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Re: Captain requirements?

#26 Post by rudder » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:22 am

Yycjetdriver wrote:While I agree with it being a concern and something that should be monitored (perhaps an encore stile matrix) the Jazz training certainly does make up for some of the "magical" total time in the logbook.
Sunwing also uses a matrix. Credit for time on type at SW counts towards the total experience level required to bid for upgrade (which can be waived at company discretion). Time accrued on type at the carrier has great value.

Regardless, no pilot at SW, Jazz, AC or anywhere else gets cut loose until successful left seat PPC AND line indoc/line check. AC also adds a LOFT style command sim after line check complete. Evaluation of decision making, situational awareness, delegation of duties, resource management, and SOP knowledge and compliance are all a function of the line check.

Ultimately, it is the Flight Standards group at each carrier that make the final decision about qualification for newly upgraded Captains.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#27 Post by truedude » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:53 am

Jazz now does PIC assessments before the ride to assess suitability. Though, personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of command course, given the quick upgrades.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#28 Post by Rowdy » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:39 am

There is a command course. Albeit I found it to be quite brief. An 8 hour day only. It could easily be expanded.

The 'captains assessment' is not only for the company to assess decision making, it is also a great learning experience for those that may be new to the PIC responsibilities and builds on your skill set. In preparation for it, I spent considerable time reviewing areas of the com, foipm and other memos that I had previously skimmed through and picked up a lot. I found it incredibly valuable. That coming from someone who spent most of his career as the PIC.

My opinion was always that a matrix or chosen numbers were not a proper measure of suitability for the left seat. A requirement for an Atpl and the ensuing individual assessments would be enough to weed out those that are incapable of making safe and effective command decisions in a 705 environment.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#29 Post by truedude » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:59 pm

That is not a command course, but a review of the COM for those who may not have been at the company very long. A command course is entirely different.

I am not in favor of a matrix at all. I have flown with guys with 15000 hrs that have sent chills down my spine, and some lower time F/O's that are super sharp. The PIC assessment is taken rather seriously, and so is line indoc of new Captains.

I find it strange that our industry has always rated ability based on hours. It is one of the few professions that rewards people so disproportionately on experience vs. skill. The two are not equal to each other.

The training at Jazz is top notch. There are people who will unlikely ever be captains at Jazz. We are not train to standard; and even though there are a tone of resources available, should they be exhausted and a candidate decides to continue with training, against the recommendations of the training department, jeopardy is attached.
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Flathorizon
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Re: Captain requirements?

#30 Post by Flathorizon » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:57 pm

Ok so one guestion for you guys...

You are next in line for left seat on a prop at Jazz, have descent seniority and pre 2015 pay....so you stay or take the FO position with a charter airline in Canada waiting for an upgrade for 2-4 yrs? And of course starting back at 0 seniority and pay that is less then even what you make a Jazz Right seat?

Thanks for all the input.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#31 Post by KenoraPilot » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:48 pm

An ATPL and a heart beat......and pass the training lol. Training is really quite good :) I felt pretty solidly prepared, however, I also stayed on the same type from FO to Captain and that was a huge help.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#32 Post by mbav8r » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:43 pm

Flathorizon wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:57 pm
Ok so one guestion for you guys...

You are next in line for left seat on a prop at Jazz, have descent seniority and pre 2015 pay....so you stay or take the FO position with a charter airline in Canada waiting for an upgrade for 2-4 yrs? And of course starting back at 0 seniority and pay that is less then even what you make a Jazz Right seat?

Thanks for all the input.
Something not adding up, if you are pre 2015 you are way past next in line for prop left seat. That being said, it sounds like you have an offer for AT or Sunwing, you’re trying to get input of should you stay at Jazz or go and take the hit for a higher paying left seat 4 years down the road.
Couple things come to mind, left seat is less guaranteed at the charter companies, is there any growth planned for them, nothing significant that I’ve heard. So, what are the retirements looking like.
Pre 2015 pay, I would stay put but I don’t like the charter business so that biases me.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#33 Post by Air.Field » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:56 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:48 pm
. Training is really quite good :)
The training is indeed top notch. That said, one has to put in effort in preparing and learning. The number of failures largely stems from those who think they'll be taught, or think they already know it all, which shows they are not ready for the left seat. There's more to it than checking the boxes.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#34 Post by Air.Field » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:03 pm

Flathorizon wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:57 pm
Ok so one guestion for you guys...

You are next in line for left seat on a prop at Jazz, have descent seniority and pre 2015 pay....so you stay or take the FO position with a charter airline in Canada waiting for an upgrade for 2-4 yrs? And of course starting back at 0 seniority and pay that is less then even what you make a Jazz Right seat?

Thanks for all the input.
Do what your heart desires. The fact you are looking elsewhere and are questioning to stay or not surely shows that you are looking for something else. Sunwing probably has the best choice with 2yrs to upgrade and higher pay.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#35 Post by KenoraPilot » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:26 am

Air.Field wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:56 pm
KenoraPilot wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:48 pm
. Training is really quite good :)
The training is indeed top notch. That said, one has to put in effort in preparing and learning. The number of failures largely stems from those who think they'll be taught, or think they already know it all, which shows they are not ready for the left seat. There's more to it than checking the boxes.
AMEN.....sorry I kinda figured that was implied by upgrade training. Its on you to be ready.....but figured everyone knew that.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#36 Post by KenoraPilot » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:27 am

Flathorizon wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:57 pm
Ok so one guestion for you guys...

You are next in line for left seat on a prop at Jazz, have descent seniority and pre 2015 pay....so you stay or take the FO position with a charter airline in Canada waiting for an upgrade for 2-4 yrs? And of course starting back at 0 seniority and pay that is less then even what you make a Jazz Right seat?

Thanks for all the input.
Sunwing is gagging for guys and on their last upgrade cycle they had a class of 20 captain candidates and only 9 passed the training. They had to wet lease an entire 737 because they couldn't staff the captains internally. So if you're looking at sunwing upgrades are coming ASAP (if not almost DE).
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Re: Captain requirements?

#37 Post by Axial Flow » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:59 pm

From a previous incident, one of the "Findings as to risk"...in this case Captain had 17000 hours...

To properly assess applicants for pilot positions, operators need access to information on experience and performance that is factual, objective, and (preferably) standardized. Transport Canada pilot records are not available to employers—this may lead to the appointment of pilots to positions for which they are unsuited, thereby compromising safety.

TSB Report Number A09W0037

This was also an issue in the Colgan Air crash with the Captain having failed 3 check rides before joining Colgan.

Attitude, experience, training, SOPS, audits and technology (new equipment) all play a part in keeping us safe. Unfortunately the system does not weed out the weak that well and things will get worse in a shortage I believe.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#38 Post by Air.Field » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:50 am

KenoraPilot wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:26 am
Air.Field wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:56 pm
KenoraPilot wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:48 pm
. Training is really quite good :)
The training is indeed top notch. That said, one has to put in effort in preparing and learning. The number of failures largely stems from those who think they'll be taught, or think they already know it all, which shows they are not ready for the left seat. There's more to it than checking the boxes.
AMEN.....sorry I kinda figured that was implied by upgrade training. Its on you to be ready.....but figured everyone knew that.
Nothing to be sorry about, from what I heard there's those who don't come prepared and it shows.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#39 Post by dhc# » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:26 pm

How many pilots does Jazz plan to hire in 2018 and how long to a left seat upgrade these days ?
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Re: Captain requirements?

#40 Post by FL007 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:25 pm

dhc# wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:26 pm
How many pilots does Jazz plan to hire in 2018 and how long to a left seat upgrade these days ?
Probably about 6-8 months from new hire to upgrade course... Realistically you could have 1500tt and 500 on type, if you can hold the type you're on.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#41 Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:58 pm

I waited 20months from date of hire to hold YYC Captain on the DH8. ATPL 6500+TT when hired.
YUL captains are pretty quick these days. Most Junior DH8 Captain in YYC is around 1.5 years by the month of training.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#42 Post by dhc# » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:42 am

Anyone from Jazz care to predict for the remainder of 2018 and heading into 2019 how long upgrade times will be ? Any sign of a slowdown ?
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Re: Captain requirements?

#43 Post by Inverted2 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:55 am

YUL still pretty quick upgrades 1-2 years. YVR same. YYC a bit longer with the RJ flying shrinking. YYZ will be much longer. Most captains are older-staying/PFO’d so the only attrition will be retirements for the most part. A little overstaffed with captains now so the days of the fast upgrades are on hold for now.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#44 Post by Air.Field » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:09 pm

looks pretty accurate to what Inverted said, so I'd second that. The classics and Q's in YUL and YVR will likely see the most movement for upgrades. Rest is senior and/or those not going to AC. With that, it all depends on AC how fast/slow things will move. Rumour is less than 200/yr from Jazz. If that holds true, you can see upgrades reach to 3-4yrs levels, which, is still better than the 10 of years past.
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Re: Captain requirements?

#45 Post by yycinformer » Fri May 11, 2018 4:20 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:58 pm
I waited 20months from date of hire to hold YYC Captain on the DH8. ATPL 6500+TT when hired.
YUL captains are pretty quick these days. Most Junior DH8 Captain in YYC is around 1.5 years by the month of training.
Friend of mind just upgrade in a year to the day he was hired in YYC, so things are still moving along (on the DH8).
dhc# wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:42 am
Anyone from Jazz care to predict for the remainder of 2018 and heading into 2019 how long upgrade times will be ? Any sign of a slowdown ?
The HR lady I spoke to to book my interview said they are down to 1 gs a month for right now (didn't get into why), and are currently filling July's class.
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