Pilot Seniority Porting

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daedalusx
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by daedalusx »

The MEC is a disgrace and it's not the first time they've stabbed the newcomers in the back (ie: the 30% pay raise increase proposal).

With a 'brotherhood' like this why even bother with organized labour ? Get me my unions dues back and I'll fight my own wars thank you.
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
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daedalusx
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by daedalusx »

Also we have a lot to learn from our brothers in the states.

Get a law that a 705 airliner FO requires a valid ATPL and 1500 hrs, 1000 multi, and you'll see that the pilot market will correct itself. In the USA it went from cut throat corporatism with E175 drivers making less than 20k a year and then Colgan Q4 buffalo happened and then some people realized the cost of unregulated airline industry. Now the regionals have real flow throw, sign in bonus, retention bonuses - huge pay increase from what it was. If it becomes attractive to become a pilot again then maybe the kids will want to get in aviation again...

That being said, there is a huge lobbying effort down south to remove that bill because of so-called pilot shortage.
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
prop2jet
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by prop2jet »

daedalusx wrote:The MEC is a disgrace and it's not the first time they've stabbed the newcomers in the back (ie: the 30% pay raise increase proposal).

With a 'brotherhood' like this why even bother with organized labour ? Get me my unions dues back and I'll fight my own wars thank you.
The newcomers did not have to come to Jazz. In fact if everyone just stayed away and did not apply maybe something would have been done. If you do not like the direction the MEC is taking then rather than state your discontent here you should direct it to the JAZ MEC, that is if in fact you are at Jazz. If you are at Jazz, then get involved.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by goingnowherefast »

Not sure many high seniority guys at BS/WSG are interested in Jazz, the pay is just too awful, base uncertainty, etc. The only people who will go to Jazz are the 20 year old 1000hr FOs with 8 months seniority. Not really a big advantage.

I guess anything that will boost recruitment is good for the Jazz pilot group. Pilots are currently working too much, and current hiring practices are starting to scrape the bottom of the pilot barrel.
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co-joe
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by co-joe »

Can anybody tell me, How many Bear/Wasaya pilots are there, and how many would benefit from this agreement out of curiosity?

Don't both of those companies have huge bonds?
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prop2jet
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by prop2jet »

45 at Bear and 105 at Wasaya, this according to the ALPA mag earlier this year. I would not be overly concered about an exodus to Jazz and someone from elsewhere getting tossed under the bus.
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JBI
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by JBI »

The actual details of the agreement are not so dramatic as suggested by the previous page of posts suggesting the sky is falling.

Any Bear or Wasaya pilots who want to have a Jazz seniority date of October 2017 must APPLY to Jazz by November of this year. While they can defer for a bit of time, this isn't set up to allow people not on property 15 years of seniority. At most my guess is that it'd give someone an extra 8 or 9 months seniority at Jazz (maybe just enough to skip RES in YUL or not getting the base they want?). Either way, that initial uncertainty of base/RES is something that dissuades some people from applying, so it's possible that this will get more folks applying to Jazz.

It's also interesting to note the timing is right after Porter announced a YQT base.
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HansDietrich
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by HansDietrich »

Image

(On a serious note: I really have no clue what this is all about or what what everyone talking about... Too many changes, too many terms, I need a QRH for all this non-sense.)

Can't I just come to work, "punch-in" and "punch-out"?
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Anticyclone
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by Anticyclone »

Its well known that unions dont do charity so what do they get out of this ??
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Inverted2
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by Inverted2 »

Nobody really knows. The Jazz MEC isn't very forthcoming of information to its members. We found out about this the same day it was released to joe public.
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The Hammer
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by The Hammer »

I'm guessing the MEC will definitely remind the company come negotiations about their cooperation and proactive stance.

I'm also thinking that it's in the best interest of The MEC for Jazz to be fully staffed and not cancelling Air Canada flights due to a lack of flight crew. They know where their bread is buttered. Pissing off you sole source of revenue doesn't bode well for anyone.

Every Bearskin or Wasaya pilot that goes to Jazz and doesn't go to Encore or Porter is a win.

I'm guessing that this agreement was in the works longer than Porter's announcement but red tape slows things down. Just a coincidence not a reaction.
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mbav8r
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by mbav8r »

Don't think, Jazz ALPA think ALPA Canada, maybe more pilots will consider joining ALPA if they perceive a benefit.
The only information the MEC is withholding is how negotiations are going, this is not new and frankly as it should be. I'm also getting frustrated with Jazz pilots continually mentioning that the MEC turned down a 30% raise for new hires, it's nothing more than a rumour, there is no way Jazz was going to raise the pay 30%, they are working on other ways to attract pilots without pricing us out of the market, things like this LOU and the focus group.

Also, this is nothing more than a PML for Bear/Wasaya pilots, are we hypocrites now, come to Jazz for a PML to go to AC but god forbid we offer that to other ALPA members!
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Flash8
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by Flash8 »

Maybe a reverse seniority port so Jazz pilots with no PIC time and a few thousand hours can go to wasaya and fly a caravan or pc12 to get their ATPl requiremtns then return and thus be eligible for upgrade with some operational experience ie not renting a c152 for 100 hours or doing it ALL through picus.

I realize there would be a knowledge gap to bridge going from dash 8 q 400 or rj ops to a caravan...low n slow, a pig in the ice, new FO etc, not to mention toes being stepped within wasayas ranks...
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BingBong
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by BingBong »

JBI wrote: most my guess is that it'd give someone an extra 8 or 9 months seniority at Jazz (maybe just enough to skip RES in YUL or not getting the base they want?
Sorry...IMO 8-9 months is 8-9 months. For some that could mean not seeing an upgrade for years given the state of the industry. Mathematically this is low given amount of turnover at all shops but still a disgusting move by "union leaders" to circumvent yet again the current CBA. In its current form Bypass pay would come into play when DEC show up on property...not anymore....8-9 months would mean the difference in spending days off or vacation with your kids over Christmas vs sitting in wabush on reserve.


I guess the new slogan should be .... career contract.....let us know what time is best for you....
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FL-280
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by FL-280 »

If we are not happy with our union reps, we should 1: let them know. 2: vote them out!
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groundpilot
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by groundpilot »

So my question for the MEC would be:

What did the members get for this?

This is obviously good for Wasaya and Bearskin for attracting pilots, good for Jazz to find more pilots, but what does this do for the junior members???

If they just gave this away to the company, I would be asking questions
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iamnomaverick
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by iamnomaverick »

How is this any different than a Jazz pilot on the original PML reserving a seniority number at mainline and deferring their course date till they get a few hundred pilots beneath them at mainline?

At this point if any pilot with enough experience wants to be at Jazz he would have already been at Jazz by now, and if he does not then I doubt a few months of seniority would make a big difference... This is nothing but to keep the stream of future pilots available to Wasaya, the bear and then Jazz and AC when and if the time comes (if the guys/girls who keep pouting about the slow FPML in the crew room everyday want to join the mothership eventually).
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dhc#
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by dhc# »

Supply and demand will force wawcon increases (look at the regional's situation in the States or what happened to Porter recently), but to help the company find ways to perpetuate the flow of new hires at the current low wawcon is puzzling.

Why not use that type of leverage to make gains for your membership.
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Air.Field
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by Air.Field »

I see this as a good benefit for the industry. One step closer to industry wide seniority and acknowledgement of years of experience for compensation. Kinda like how real professions are run.
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NewCommercialPilot
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Re: Pilot Seniority Porting

Post by NewCommercialPilot »

Never going to happen.

Company A goes bankrupt and then its pilots start filtering in above (profitable) Company B's pilots as they get hired. Right.
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