Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

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Malfunction
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Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Malfunction »

Anyone else feel like aircanada did a bait and switch on us? Several things pilots at jazz fought for like better starting pay also when you transition to captain you carry your senority with you(pay wise).We gave this up all because of the pml. So the pml is gone and we are stuck with all the compermises we made, when do we stop shooting ourselves in the foot and fight to make jazz a great career company again? Am I wrong?
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Inverted2
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Inverted2 »

No you're pretty much right. Our MEC did con us into signing a pretty crappy contract 3 years ago, and yes the PML was used as a gun to our heads to get it ratified.
Of course AC is baiting pilots into the regionals with hopes of moving over but they know that mainline wannabes are "yes men" (and women- figure of speech but must be gender inclusive :wink: ) and will put up with a $500/week take home pay and keep smiling.
When they hire from the competition they are accomplishing 2 things: 1. Hurting the competition by stealing their pilots and 2. Saving themselves a ton of $$$ because Air Canada indirectly pays for Jazz's training and if they take a Captain from Jazz there are 3 training events vs 1 if they hire some schmo from Encore.
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goleafsgo
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by goleafsgo »

Of course our union will say and have said that we aren't in a bargaining position with the company. The carrot is working all too well and we have no problem hiring new pilots who will accept the current pay. Once the applications slow down then we may actually be able to improve our pay
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Malfunction
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Malfunction »

I cant blame guys with low time wanting to accept our current contract. The company has worked hard to fill its ranks with many programs (grads and flow from other companies) that will keep the new applications flowing in. I think we shouldnt worry about the next career step until we can improve jazz first because you never know when ac pulls the plug and we are career jazz pilots like it or not.
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montado
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by montado »

Could we cost cut the Diversity department and divide this among employees for better pay? I mean we are in Canada, its pretty hard to not be diverse but those emails make it sound like we are accomplishing something.
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TheSocialChameleon
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by TheSocialChameleon »

Listen guys, don't complain about things that aren't in your control. You're not a slave to the government, to your company, nor your union contract. Remember there is nothing that the contract can become to make you happy. If they improve one area, then you'll have the lack of flow through to mainline to complain about.

Nothing changes until you change. Improve your skills as a speaker and investor.
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Inverted2
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Inverted2 »

montado wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:46 pm
Could we cost cut the Diversity department and divide this among employees for better pay? I mean we are in Canada, its pretty hard to not be diverse but those emails make it sound like we are accomplishing something.
Looks like someone hasn't read enough Diversity and LGBTQXYZ memos yet. :rolleyes:
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Air.Field
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Air.Field »

Will be real difficult when random drug tests happens eh TSC hardware?
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GhostRider6
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by GhostRider6 »

TSC: “ build your skills as a speaker.. investor..”

Huh?


Who is this TSC guy???
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Lightchop
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Lightchop »

Go take a look at Qantaslinks pay and working conditions on the Q. Better in some, maybe a bit worse in others but the pay is so much more. $65k to start in the right seat, $110k in the left. Plus around $20k in other top ups. Work a bit more days per month (18, but let's be honest lots of Jazz pilots work basically the same just longer duty) but many easy single days home in bed every night. Seems pretty damn attractive to me...

With the new duty regs coming to Canada we're not going to be so different anymore, but we sure will be paid less.

Why again are we so fucked in Canada?

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Malfunction
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Malfunction »

The truth is if the company could pay us less they would. They dont care about us as we are just a employee number to them. We will only ever get what we bring to the negotiating table. Until we say we want wages at 65/yr starting like quantis link we wont get jack sh :x t. I suggest us pilots stop worrying about the company and it multi millions and worry about the pilot group. Pml is gone .....all jazz cares about was removing the top pay'd pilots off the payscale and pention program. They are gone and so is the pml but the garbage wages remained. We are not fools but we sure are blind.
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Lightchop
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Lightchop »

Hence why I've applied at many other airlines. As soon as people realize there's a big world out there and are willing to leave what used to be an amazing county, the sooner you'll be paid what you're worth.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by KenoraPilot »

Lightchop wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:45 am
Hence why I've applied at many other airlines. As soon as people realize there's a big world out there and are willing to leave what used to be an amazing county, the sooner you'll be paid what you're worth.
Good Luck! I hope you are offered a position fitting your skill and experience soon!
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Inverted2
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Inverted2 »

Sunwing is advertising for pilots and I'm sure Transat is going to be hiring too. That would be a significant increase in pay over Express carriers.
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Lightchop
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Lightchop »

Two charter companies I have no interest in working for.
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Topoff
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Topoff »

Ornge is paying their new FOs more than Jazz on a PC12.
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Malfunction
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Malfunction »

Some medivac fo's are making 10-15 more a year to fly a kingair
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mbav8r
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by mbav8r »

With all due respect, if pilots would stop taking the job and Jazz had recruitment problems like the above mentioned jobs, the job would pay more.
Our negotiators tried to delay long enough for a possible shortage to affect Jazz but despite the pay, 980 new pilots have been hired since the new deal was signed. Georgian continues to find pilots and SR has gone up a little since new but have managed so far to attract enough pilots.
Some companies are paying above 100k for King Air captain positions, perhaps it’s because the potential qualified pilots for those positions are flocking to Jazzet al for the lower pay but possible long term pay off, seems clear to me, maybe you see it differently.
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airworthyb
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by airworthyb »

montado wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:46 pm
Could we cost cut the Diversity department and divide this among employees for better pay? I mean we are in Canada, its pretty hard to not be diverse but those emails make it sound like we are accomplishing something.
Inverted2 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:46 am
...LGBTQXYZ memos yet. :rolleyes:
Looks like the memos haven't sunk in.

There are LGBTQ members on this forum, please be respectful.
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montado
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by montado »

airworthyb wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:53 pm
Looks like the memos haven't sunk in.

There are LGBTQ members on this forum, please be respectful.
I don’t feel our comments are directed at the community that fits the company “diversity” profile. It’s directed at the “company agenda”. Do any LGBTQ get tired of the diversity emails? Probably. Don’t you think they feel normalcy and inclusion with out the company agenda. I can’t speak for everyone. The emails don’t sink in because diversity is a sham. Diversity is limited by the ideals of the ones who create the “diversity profile”. It’s all about picking and choosing the profiles that fit the political agenda, and that fits the company image. I don’t not believe it’s very effective at any rate.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by goingnowherefast »

Malfunction wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:37 pm
Some medivac fo's are making 10-15 more a year to fly a kingair
Perhaps it's time for pilots to leave Jazz and other regionals for medivac and Ornge. You can clear 100 grand as a medivac captain. Schedule can't be much worse than stand-ups.
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Victory
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Victory »

goingnowherefast wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:10 am
Schedule can't be much worse than stand-ups.
Hahaha
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Lightchop
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Lightchop »

Laugh all you want but YVR-SJC stand ups are money. High credit, good time in the hotel and you can't do them back to back. Do 10 of those a month, one every three days and you're done your block.

YUL-YTZ is almost as good.
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Inverted2
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Inverted2 »

Those "good" high credit stand ups won't be legal if they ever implement the new fatigue rules. The problem is the low credit, short sleep ones that the junior pilots get stuck with. You have to do at least 15-16 of those to get the blocking average.
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Hangry
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Re: Time to have a real conversation about pay and our contract

Post by Hangry »

If Jazz is like any other airline with seniority no one will care what the junior members have to do to get their block hours. Safety be damned!
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