First kid

[HansDietrich]

Having a family and working at Jazz as an F/O is nearly impossible. I have two kids and my wife has a very well paying job. We don't live in a world where only one of the parents can work and the other stay home. That's the exception nowadays, not the rule. Like many people said, budgeting is very important. If I were you I'd ask your parents if I could move my family in with them temporarily while you get on your feet and you kid can start daycare, so your wife can work. It's important to help each other out. Society and our government is doing very little in that regards.

I quit Jazz because a combination of things. They pay was horrendous, but I knew what I was getting myself into. In the end it was the airplane and base that made me quit. Add that to the crap pay and less than ideal work environment I realized that it just wasn't worth my time. I ended up going back to flying corporate. I just recently got upgraded left seat and the salary is quite acceptable. I had no intention of going to Air Canada, so staying at Jazz was not an option anymore.

Am I happier now? Yes. Much more so. There is nothing wrong with moving on, but if the airlines are for you, then try alternative means to stick around until you can go left seat.

[mixturerich]

Excuse my ignorance, but why would anyone in their right mind choose to have a kid on an FO salary with a wife not making much money, or altogether quitting her job to raise it? Ever heard of birth control? Assuming it was all a choice to begin with. It just doesn’t seem like smart planning. Jeez, I want a family too but I’m going to damn well wait until I can completely afford it, even if that is years away.

I don’t mean to offend anyone. I’m just trying to pick your brains as to how you wound up in such a financially stressful situation. Please feel free to enlighten me!

Edit: I’m specifically addressing those who made a kid after they got hired, not those to who came into the job with a kid...that’s more understandable because of the long-term benefits.

[AuxBatOn]

Excuse my ignorance, but why would anyone in their right mind choose to have a kid on an FO salary with a wife not making much money, or altogether quitting her job to raise it? Ever heard of birth control? Assuming it was all a choice to begin with. It just doesn’t seem like smart planning. Jeez, I want a family too but I’m going to damn well wait until I can completely afford it, even if that is years away.

Bottom line? None of your buisness.

[ant_321]

Excuse my ignorance, but why would anyone in their right mind choose to have a kid on an FO salary with a wife not making much money, or altogether quitting her job to raise it? Ever heard of birth control? Assuming it was all a choice to begin with. It just doesn’t seem like smart planning. Jeez, I want a family too but I’m going to damn well wait until I can completely afford it, even if that is years away.

I don’t mean to offend anyone. I’m just trying to pick your brains as to how you wound up in such a financially stressful situation. Please feel free to enlighten me!

Edit: I’m specifically addressing those who made a kid after they got hired, not those to who came into the job with a kid...that’s more understandable because of the long-term benefits.

You worded it quite harshly but I agree with you. I think the easy answer is people make life choices with their emotions rather than their brains.

[Babar350]

I'm curious, how much would be the minimum salary to be able to raise a child in a normal way, specially between 0-5 years ?

[ant_321]

A lot more than 35k.

[Lightchop]

A lot more than 35k.

No one came to Jazz without knowing what their pay would be. So it's kinda hard to feel sorry for anyone. The pay sucks. We all know it.

Take the quick upgrade or RTB yourself and work something else on the side until you can.

[Kaykay]

When someone can afford it is completely subjective. Everyone’s lifestyle is different and not everyone has the compulsive need to keep up with the Jones’ either so maybe one family can afford it on a low budget and maybe one can’t.

Crunch your own numbers and decide for yourself if you can afford it. Everyone else, mind your own business. And don’t put too much stock in what anonymous strangers say on a forum. Everyone has a bloody superiority complex nowadays and you’ll only ever hear or see their highlight reel anyway.

[rudder]

There is a reason that Jazz mostly attracts pilots in their first year or two of commercial flying. It is the staring pay. Probably the lowest of any tier 2 carrier for year 1-4.

p.s. don’t start with the quick upgrade crap. It may not be on the required base. Might not be on current equipment. Lots of Jazz new hires are 12-24 months from hours required for ATP. And someone with 2000 hours probably should not be the ideal candidate for a Part 705 Captaincy. This freshly minted Captain will be paired up with some FO’s who have 300 hours total experience and 50 hours time on type.

[KenoraPilot]

Excuse my ignorance, but why would anyone in their right mind choose to have a kid on an FO salary with a wife not making much money, or altogether quitting her job to raise it? Ever heard of birth control? Assuming it was all a choice to begin with. It just doesn’t seem like smart planning. Jeez, I want a family too but I’m going to damn well wait until I can completely afford it, even if that is years away.

I don’t mean to offend anyone. I’m just trying to pick your brains as to how you wound up in such a financially stressful situation. Please feel free to enlighten me!

Edit: I’m specifically addressing those who made a kid after they got hired, not those to who came into the job with a kid...that’s more understandable because of the long-term benefits.

Before you lay judgment, how old are you? Where do you live? Who do you work for? How much do you make? Do you have family in the same city? How old is your partner? Do you have a partner? Same sex? Adoption? IVF?

There is a lot behind having a kid and money is one part. They were asking for advice and suggestions not judgment. Not all kids are planned and your comments are/could be taken extremely insulting.

[Kaykay]

Excuse my ignorance, but why would anyone in their right mind choose to have a kid on an FO salary with a wife not making much money, or altogether quitting her job to raise it? Ever heard of birth control? Assuming it was all a choice to begin with. It just doesn’t seem like smart planning. Jeez, I want a family too but I’m going to damn well wait until I can completely afford it, even if that is years away.

I don’t mean to offend anyone. I’m just trying to pick your brains as to how you wound up in such a financially stressful situation. Please feel free to enlighten me!

Edit: I’m specifically addressing those who made a kid after they got hired, not those to who came into the job with a kid...that’s more understandable because of the long-term benefits.

Before you lay judgment, how old are you? Where do you live? Who do you work for? How much do you make? Do you have family in the same city? How old is your partner? Do you have a partner? Same sex? Adoption? IVF?

There is a lot behind having a kid and money is one part. They were asking for advice and suggestions not judgment. Not all kids are planned and your comments are/could be taken extremely insulting.

Spot on. Agree 100%

[bearitus]

In my case I came to Jazz with experience and an Atpl for two main reason. Number one was because of the quick upgrades and number two was for a chance at AC.

I took a risk and it didn't work out for me as upgrade times have slowed considerably. I am now looking at another 2-3 years in the right seat making 40k until I upgrade. Unfortunately in my situation with a stay at home wife and a young baby I will likely have to seek higher paying employment. Had I known the upgrade times were going to slow so much I probably wouldn't have made the jump to regional flying.

[Lightchop]

In my case I came to Jazz with experience and an Atpl for two main reason. Number one was because of the quick upgrades and number two was for a chance at AC.

I took a risk and it didn't work out for me as upgrade times have slowed considerably. I am now looking at another 2-3 years in the right seat making 40k until I upgrade. Unfortunately in my situation with a stay at home wife and a young baby I will likely have to seek higher paying employment. Had I known the upgrade times were going to slow so much I probably wouldn't have made the jump to regional flying.

ANOTHER 2-3 years? Where are you, YYZ or YYC? If either of those, commute like everyone else does. All types in YUL are very jr and the Q and RJ is at two years in YVR.

I don't see where it would be another 2-3 years anywhere actually since I know a Q cap in YYC at 2.5 years and my last sim partner upgraded in YYZ at 2.2 years. That is unless you like literally just started and have been here for 4 months in which case I'd say, patience. If you've been here longer, your upgrade time guess is wrong.

AC is hiring a ton of pilots next year and were already seeing on average 16 go a month from jazz. You'd be an idiot to leave now.

[goingnowherefast]

I'm not 100% sure how parental leave works in your province, so this advice may be crap.

Sounds like your wife's job pays better. After the right amount of time, she could go back to work and you could go on paternal leave. With the lower income on leave, it's a smaller hit to total household income. My understanding is that both parents get a year combined on leave. She could take the first 3 months and you take the last 9 months of allotted parental leave.

[bearitus]

In my case I came to Jazz with experience and an Atpl for two main reason. Number one was because of the quick upgrades and number two was for a chance at AC.

I took a risk and it didn't work out for me as upgrade times have slowed considerably. I am now looking at another 2-3 years in the right seat making 40k until I upgrade. Unfortunately in my situation with a stay at home wife and a young baby I will likely have to seek higher paying employment. Had I known the upgrade times were going to slow so much I probably wouldn't have made the jump to regional flying.

ANOTHER 2-3 years? Where are you, YYZ or YYC? If either of those, commute like everyone else does. All types in YUL are very jr and the Q and RJ is at two years in YVR.

I don't see where it would be another 2-3 years anywhere actually since I know a Q cap in YYC at 2.5 years and my last sim partner upgraded in YYZ at 2.2 years. That is unless you like literally just started and have been here for 4 months in which case I'd say, patience. If you've been here longer, your upgrade time guess is wrong.

AC is hiring a ton of pilots next year and were already seeing on average 16 go a month from jazz. You'd be an idiot to leave now.

That may be so but I don't know. I have been at Jazz just over a year and I haven't moved a single spot up on the Dash 8 classic YYZ seniority list. On top of that there are like 15 lines of reserve so not much OT to be had. I have my captain bid in for YUL as well but seems there hasn't been much movement there either.

[Lightchop]

In my case I came to Jazz with experience and an Atpl for two main reason. Number one was because of the quick upgrades and number two was for a chance at AC.

I took a risk and it didn't work out for me as upgrade times have slowed considerably. I am now looking at another 2-3 years in the right seat making 40k until I upgrade. Unfortunately in my situation with a stay at home wife and a young baby I will likely have to seek higher paying employment. Had I known the upgrade times were going to slow so much I probably wouldn't have made the jump to regional flying.

ANOTHER 2-3 years? Where are you, YYZ or YYC? If either of those, commute like everyone else does. All types in YUL are very jr and the Q and RJ is at two years in YVR.

I don't see where it would be another 2-3 years anywhere actually since I know a Q cap in YYC at 2.5 years and my last sim partner upgraded in YYZ at 2.2 years. That is unless you like literally just started and have been here for 4 months in which case I'd say, patience. If you've been here longer, your upgrade time guess is wrong.

AC is hiring a ton of pilots next year and were already seeing on average 16 go a month from jazz. You'd be an idiot to leave now.

That may be so but I don't know. I have been at Jazz just over a year and I haven't moved a single spot up on the Dash 8 classic YYZ seniority list. On top of that there are like 15 lines of reserve so not much OT to be had. I have my captain bid in for YUL as well but seems there hasn't been much movement there either.

If you've been here a year you're probably one year away from an upgrade. Bid the Q in Montreal as well, it's jr and you still get the free hotels if you're a commuter with the LOU.

[Lightchop]

In my case I came to Jazz with experience and an Atpl for two main reason. Number one was because of the quick upgrades and number two was for a chance at AC.

I took a risk and it didn't work out for me as upgrade times have slowed considerably. I am now looking at another 2-3 years in the right seat making 40k until I upgrade. Unfortunately in my situation with a stay at home wife and a young baby I will likely have to seek higher paying employment. Had I known the upgrade times were going to slow so much I probably wouldn't have made the jump to regional flying.

ANOTHER 2-3 years? Where are you, YYZ or YYC? If either of those, commute like everyone else does. All types in YUL are very jr and the Q and RJ is at two years in YVR.

I don't see where it would be another 2-3 years anywhere actually since I know a Q cap in YYC at 2.5 years and my last sim partner upgraded in YYZ at 2.2 years. That is unless you like literally just started and have been here for 4 months in which case I'd say, patience. If you've been here longer, your upgrade time guess is wrong.

AC is hiring a ton of pilots next year and were already seeing on average 16 go a month from jazz. You'd be an idiot to leave now.

That may be so but I don't know. I have been at Jazz just over a year and I haven't moved a single spot up on the Dash 8 classic YYZ seniority list. On top of that there are like 15 lines of reserve so not much OT to be had. I have my captain bid in for YUL as well but seems there hasn't been much movement there either.

If you've been here a year you're probably one year away from an upgrade. Bid the Q in Montreal as well, it's jr and you still get the free hotels if you're a commuter with the LOU.

See what happens in the new year with the bid it will give you an idea of what the next year will look like.

The last thing I'd suggest doing right now is quitting.