17 year TA?

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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:24 pm

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:18 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:00 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:54 pm


As a former jazz captain you must be one heck of an overtime whore and even at that I still highly doubt that you make more than any WestJet captain (swoop excluded).
Everyone was posting friend's pay stubs online last week. Take home every two weeks is just over $2k for a WJ Capt. I take home that as a Jazz Capt on my 40 credit 25th pay check

And more usually on the 10th.

Not an ot whore but I do one or two easy WDO a month.
Ok excluding “someone’s pay stub (perhaps that person was an anomaly due to a rtb or something).
From what I’ve seen year 1 WestJet captain pay is 136/hr or somewhere around that?
Year 2 jazz captain pay is what sub 80$/hr or somewhere around that?
How is it at all possible for you to make more?
I'm just speaking on their take home pay. They do make more on their T4, I don't deny that.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Yycjetdriver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:31 pm

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:24 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:18 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:00 pm


Everyone was posting friend's pay stubs online last week. Take home every two weeks is just over $2k for a WJ Capt. I take home that as a Jazz Capt on my 40 credit 25th pay check

And more usually on the 10th.

Not an ot whore but I do one or two easy WDO a month.
Ok excluding “someone’s pay stub (perhaps that person was an anomaly due to a rtb or something).
From what I’ve seen year 1 WestJet captain pay is 136/hr or somewhere around that?
Year 2 jazz captain pay is what sub 80$/hr or somewhere around that?
How is it at all possible for you to make more?
I'm just speaking on their take home pay. They do make more on their T4, I don't deny that.
Lol what?
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:33 pm

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:31 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:24 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:18 pm


Ok excluding “someone’s pay stub (perhaps that person was an anomaly due to a rtb or something).
From what I’ve seen year 1 WestJet captain pay is 136/hr or somewhere around that?
Year 2 jazz captain pay is what sub 80$/hr or somewhere around that?
How is it at all possible for you to make more?
I'm just speaking on their take home pay. They do make more on their T4, I don't deny that.
Lol what?
You understand the difference between gross and net pay, right?

WJ pilots dump 20% of their pay into their share program in leui of a pension... Into a stock currently on the down trend. They also pay for their own STD and LTD premiums in full. Stuff like that adds up. Take home vs take home it's not much different. Goes to show how good Jazz's benefits are.
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Yycjetdriver
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Yycjetdriver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:45 pm

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:33 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:31 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:24 pm


I'm just speaking on their take home pay. They do make more on their T4, I don't deny that.
Lol what?
You understand the difference between gross and net pay, right?

WJ pilots dump 20% of their pay into their share program in leui of a pension... Into a stock currently on the down trend. They also pay for their own STD and LTD premiums in full. Stuff like that adds up. Take home vs take home it's not much different. Goes to show how good Jazz's benefits are.
Yes I know the difference.
Listen if at the end of the year a WestJet pilot has 100,000$ or more dollars on his t4 than you because he earns 50 or more dollars an hour than you. Oh don’t have the right to go around saying “I make more than a WJ captain”. You don’t, feel free to say your benefits are better which you’re right they are.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:50 pm

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:45 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:33 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:31 pm


Lol what?
You understand the difference between gross and net pay, right?

WJ pilots dump 20% of their pay into their share program in leui of a pension... Into a stock currently on the down trend. They also pay for their own STD and LTD premiums in full. Stuff like that adds up. Take home vs take home it's not much different. Goes to show how good Jazz's benefits are.
Yes I know the difference.
Listen if at the end of the year a WestJet pilot has 100,000$ or more dollars on his t4 than you because he earns 50 or more dollars an hour than you. Oh don’t have the right to go around saying “I make more than a WJ captain”. You don’t, feel free to say your benefits are better which you’re right they are.
Quote me where I said I make as much as a WJ Captain.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Captain S itmagnet » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:03 pm

Is this going to digress into a dick measuring contest? I'd rather show you pictures of my successful kids and happy chihuahuas than my T4 any day. I am happy with my Jazz situation pre MOS4 and I like now knowing what my final payday before retirement might look like. And that's a minimum without any new things that may get negotiated in during the contract life. And my peers are going to get onside with the new plan and hopefully we never have to look over our shoulder for something bad about to run us over.
WJ and Jazz. Apples and oranges. No point comparing. If you're happy in the teal or red that you chose then great. If not go out and get a "real" job.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:07 pm

Captain S itmagnet wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:03 pm
Is this going to digress into a dick measuring contest? I'd rather show you pictures of my successful kids and happy chihuahuas than my T4 any day. I am happy with my Jazz situation pre MOS4 and I like now knowing what my final payday before retirement might look like. And that's a minimum without any new things that may get negotiated in during the contract life. And my peers are going to get onside with the new plan and hopefully we never have to look over our shoulder for something bad about to run us over.
WJ and Jazz. Apples and oranges. No point comparing. If you're happy in the teal or red that you chose then great. If not go out and get a "real" job.
I agree.

Sorry for getting off topic.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by mbav8r » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:09 pm

Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:54 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:49 pm
Inverted2 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:45 pm
How are we screwing over the industry? I made 150k last year at Jazz and make more than a Swoop captain.
I'm a year two Captain and take home more than a year two WJ Captain. Sure they have their big stock match but have you seen the direction the stock has been going? I'll take my ESOP and DC pension. And more money in my pocket.
As a former jazz captain you must be one heck of an overtime whore and even at that I still highly doubt that you make more than any WestJet captain (swoop excluded).
He said take home more, which is likely true.
No overtime, I take home in my bank, without per diems, 6000.00 per month, more after CPP and EI are maxed. That’s after the 650.00 comes off for ESOP, Jazz then matches 60% of that at the end of the year, so call that an extra 500 a month
This of course 13 year Captain pay scale.
Congratulations to all Jazz pilots, we don’t have to find out what plan b was, I view this as a win.
I will lobby ALPA Canada to change the rules for safety sake, my guess the airlines will lobby against and win but sometime down the road when we revisit the contract because of a shortage, maybe we an make the other 28% happy.

FYI, I wrote this response and got busy, so many of the responses were posted and any redundant points are because of that
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Last edited by mbav8r on Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by HansDietrich » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:16 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:09 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:54 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:49 pm


I'm a year two Captain and take home more than a year two WJ Captain. Sure they have their big stock match but have you seen the direction the stock has been going? I'll take my ESOP and DC pension. And more money in my pocket.
As a former jazz captain you must be one heck of an overtime whore and even at that I still highly doubt that you make more than any WestJet captain (swoop excluded).
He said take home more, which is likely true.
No overtime, I take home in my bank, without per diems, 6000.00 per month, more after CPP and EI are maxed. That’s after the 650.00 comes off for ESOP, Jazz then matches 60% of that at the end of the year, so call that an extra 500 a month
This of course 13 year Captain pay scale.
Congratulations to all Jazz pilots, we don’t have to find out what plan b was, I view this as a win.
I will lobby ALPA Canada to change the rules for safety sake, my guess the airlines will lobby against and win but sometime down the road when we revisit the contract because of a shortage, maybe we an make the other 28% happy.
You're right. Until legislation is passed to ban anyone under 1500 hrs flying jets or "heavy" turboprops, little can be done to leverage this so called "shortage". AC and Chorus know this too well. Could Jazz have gotten a better deal? Sure. Would have been much better? I highly doubt it.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:22 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:16 pm
mbav8r wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:09 pm
Yycjetdriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:54 pm


As a former jazz captain you must be one heck of an overtime whore and even at that I still highly doubt that you make more than any WestJet captain (swoop excluded).
He said take home more, which is likely true.
No overtime, I take home in my bank, without per diems, 6000.00 per month, more after CPP and EI are maxed. That’s after the 650.00 comes off for ESOP, Jazz then matches 60% of that at the end of the year, so call that an extra 500 a month
This of course 13 year Captain pay scale.
Congratulations to all Jazz pilots, we don’t have to find out what plan b was, I view this as a win.
I will lobby ALPA Canada to change the rules for safety sake, my guess the airlines will lobby against and win but sometime down the road when we revisit the contract because of a shortage, maybe we an make the other 28% happy.
You're right. Until legislation is passed to ban anyone under 1500 hrs flying jets or "heavy" turboprops, little can be done to leverage this so called "shortage". AC and Chorus know this too well. Could Jazz have gotten a better deal? Sure. Would have been much better? I highly doubt it.
We just need to start making some noise in the USA, and have some American representatives realize that Canadians are flying into the USA and flying American passengers around with less than an ATPL. That might put some pressure on Canada to change our rules. If that happens, being ina 17 year deal won't matter since half of our pilots won't be allowed to work here anymore! LOL.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Yieldermatik » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:29 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm
Jazz pilots were not willing to risk it and voted something that was mediocre at best. It's similar to those guys that marry the fat girl. Sure, she's not the best, but she'll be a sure bet and will stick around.
Jazz goes to such lengths to be a company that stands against discrimination....I am relieved you don’t represent the company anymore. Very distasteful analogy, my friend. Not funny at all.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by mbav8r » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:33 pm

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:22 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:16 pm
mbav8r wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:09 pm

He said take home more, which is likely true.
No overtime, I take home in my bank, without per diems, 6000.00 per month, more after CPP and EI are maxed. That’s after the 650.00 comes off for ESOP, Jazz then matches 60% of that at the end of the year, so call that an extra 500 a month
This of course 13 year Captain pay scale.
Congratulations to all Jazz pilots, we don’t have to find out what plan b was, I view this as a win.
I will lobby ALPA Canada to change the rules for safety sake, my guess the airlines will lobby against and win but sometime down the road when we revisit the contract because of a shortage, maybe we an make the other 28% happy.
You're right. Until legislation is passed to ban anyone under 1500 hrs flying jets or "heavy" turboprops, little can be done to leverage this so called "shortage". AC and Chorus know this too well. Could Jazz have gotten a better deal? Sure. Would have been much better? I highly doubt it.
We just need to start making some noise in the USA, and have some American representatives realize that Canadians are flying into the USA and flying American passengers around with less than an ATPL. That might put some pressure on Canada to change our rules. If that happens, being ina 17 year deal won't matter since half of our pilots won't be allowed to work here anymore! LOL.
That’s quite brilliant, perhaps you should run for ALPA president.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by BingBong » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:34 pm

Yieldermatik wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:29 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm
Jazz pilots were not willing to risk it and voted something that was mediocre at best. It's similar to those guys that marry the fat girl. Sure, she's not the best, but she'll be a sure bet and will stick around.
Jazz goes to such lengths to be a company that stands against discrimination....I am relieved you don’t represent the company anymore. Very distasteful analogy, my friend. Not funny at all.

Did the fat girl take 1/2 your shit?
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Yieldermatik » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:43 pm

BingBong wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:34 pm
Yieldermatik wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:29 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm
Jazz pilots were not willing to risk it and voted something that was mediocre at best. It's similar to those guys that marry the fat girl. Sure, she's not the best, but she'll be a sure bet and will stick around.
Jazz goes to such lengths to be a company that stands against discrimination....I am relieved you don’t represent the company anymore. Very distasteful analogy, my friend. Not funny at all.

Did the fat girl take 1/2 your shit?
I see I have to work harder at teaching my son to be a respectful adult someday. Unbelievable.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by HansDietrich » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:43 pm

Yieldermatik wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:29 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm
Jazz pilots were not willing to risk it and voted something that was mediocre at best. It's similar to those guys that marry the fat girl. Sure, she's not the best, but she'll be a sure bet and will stick around.
Jazz goes to such lengths to be a company that stands against discrimination....I am relieved you don’t represent the company anymore. Very distasteful analogy, my friend. Not funny at all.
Oh get over it! You're a sensitive kind, aren't you? Why is that? Did I strike a nerve?

In this ultra political age of ours, one can't even make a joke. Jesus... you must be a blast at parties. I never "represented" Jazz. I just worked there. I showed up to work, did my job, got the people home safe and collected my paycheck. I don't care to "represent" anyone I work for. I just deliver on what we agreed upon. I fly, they pay. I didn't support or pretend to give a sh*t about their diversity agenda. I also wasn't a d*ck to people. At least not to their face, but be sure I made fun of many, as I'm sure many made fun of me.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Inverted2 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:47 pm

You could have said “plus sized” or “heavy set” girl. :roll:
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:48 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:33 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:22 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:16 pm


You're right. Until legislation is passed to ban anyone under 1500 hrs flying jets or "heavy" turboprops, little can be done to leverage this so called "shortage". AC and Chorus know this too well. Could Jazz have gotten a better deal? Sure. Would have been much better? I highly doubt it.
We just need to start making some noise in the USA, and have some American representatives realize that Canadians are flying into the USA and flying American passengers around with less than an ATPL. That might put some pressure on Canada to change our rules. If that happens, being ina 17 year deal won't matter since half of our pilots won't be allowed to work here anymore! LOL.
That’s quite brilliant, perhaps you should run for ALPA president.
We had a great chance to have solid Jazz fella in charge of Alpa Canada but two LEC Representatives at Jazz felt a Westjet pilot who has his application in at AC was a better choice.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Dizzy D » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:54 pm

We had a great chance to have solid Jazz fella in charge of Alpa Canada but two LEC Representatives at Jazz felt a Westjet pilot who has his application in at AC was a better choice.
[/quote]

It was definitely time for change at the Canada Board.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:06 pm

Dizzy D wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:54 pm
We had a great chance to have solid Jazz fella in charge of Alpa Canada but two LEC Representatives at Jazz felt a Westjet pilot who has his application in at AC was a better choice.
It was definitely time for change at the Canada Board.
[/quote]

Disagree. Brian Shury was the only right choice for the position and having a had a chance to hear him speak again at the road show and chat with him briefly, those LEC reps who chose to support a Westjetter with not much of a resume really fucked up.

Did you know he didn't even run for Vice President? The member from Air Transat who was elected stepped down in order to allow Captain Shury the opportunity to stay involved at a high level. No one expected him to lose the President position. The majority of all other ALPA carriers in Canada voted for him. Tim won only because two of our pilots let internal MEC disagreements get in the way of important National politics.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by CanadianEh » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:21 am

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:06 pm
Dizzy D wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:54 pm
We had a great chance to have solid Jazz fella in charge of Alpa Canada but two LEC Representatives at Jazz felt a Westjet pilot who has his application in at AC was a better choice.
It was definitely time for change at the Canada Board.


Disagree. Brian Shury was the only right choice for the position and having a had a chance to hear him speak again at the road show and chat with him briefly, those LEC reps who chose to support a Westjetter with not much of a resume really fucked up.

Did you know he didn't even run for Vice President? The member from Air Transat who was elected stepped down in order to allow Captain Shury the opportunity to stay involved at a high level. No one expected him to lose the President position. The majority of all other ALPA carriers in Canada voted for him. Tim won only because two of our pilots let internal MEC disagreements get in the way of important National politics.
With all due respect, Brian had been Dan’s right hand man in the Canada board for years and what did they really accomplish? We finally got fatigue regs, although watered down and full of loopholes. Pilot pay and working conditions are worse than ever with no end in sight after this TA. So I ask you, what has been accomplished of significance by during Dan and Brian’s time?
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:11 am

Well for one, ggn and sky both joined Alpa and now one... The bottom feeder is gone.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Jettime3 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:57 am

V1Vr wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:11 am
Well for one, ggn and sky both joined Alpa and now one... The bottom feeder is gone.
Wish it was that simple. GGN does not have a signed contract with ALPA. We signed cards then GGN put oil in the path of negotiations so to form a slippery slope. GGN are stating that they still have flying in the future which creates a barrier . Pilots cannot see GGN letting them transition to Jazz as long as GGN claims to need them to fly. GGN pilots are technically operating under the OREA contract still . So far GGN is attempting tactics to halt pilots leaving. For one, innuendos that if pilots want mainline it's best to stay at GGN. Maybe they should also tell pilots to get their yellow fever and malaria shots in case they have to go to fly in Africa under GGNs master plan to get more contracts . They are ruthless. The sooner that place had a padlock and condemned sign on the door the better . This is already getting nasty and GGN has not even started to get warmed up.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by rudder » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:07 am

Jettime3 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:57 am

Wish it was that simple. GGN does not have a signed contract with ALPA. We signed cards then GGN put oil in the path of negotiations so to form a slippery slope. They are stating that they still have flying in the future which creates a barrier . Pilots cannot see GGN letting them transition to Jazz as long as GGN claims to need them to fly. GGN pilots are technically operating under the OREA contract still . So far GGN is attempting tactics to halt pilots leaving. They are ruthless. SOS.
You do not need to negotiate your resignation with GGN.

Jazz makes you a job offer (including DOH and full credit for service). You accept. Tell GGN goodbye.

Welcome aboard.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:34 am

Jettime3 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:57 am
V1Vr wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:11 am
Well for one, ggn and sky both joined Alpa and now one... The bottom feeder is gone.
Wish it was that simple. GGN does not have a signed contract with ALPA. We signed cards then GGN put oil in the path of negotiations so to form a slippery slope. GGN are stating that they still have flying in the future which creates a barrier . Pilots cannot see GGN letting them transition to Jazz as long as GGN claims to need them to fly. GGN pilots are technically operating under the OREA contract still . So far GGN is attempting tactics to halt pilots leaving. For one, innuendos that if pilots want mainline it's best to stay at GGN. Maybe they should also tell pilots to get their yellow fever and malaria shots in case they have to go to fly in Africa under GGNs master plan to get more contracts . They are ruthless. The sooner that place had a padlock and condemned sign on the door the better . This is already getting nasty and GGN has not even started to get warmed up.
GGN will have zero control of pilots moving to Jazz. It's as simple as when your start date comes at Jazz, you QUIT you job at GGN.
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Jettime3 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:58 am

This is what they sent to us. " best regional airline in the world "
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