Think carefully before you make your next move

[Diadem]

If that were true, it still wouldn't explain why AC just accepted that Jazz should do the flying. SR's payscale tops out at five years, not 17, so if Jazz went to AC why wouldn't AC take the time to think about their cost savings between now and 2035 by potentially going with another operator? For that matter, why would AC accept ending the GGN CPA at the behest of Jazz if GGN is cheaper?

[truedude]

If that were true, it still wouldn't explain why AC just accepted that Jazz should do the flying. SR's payscale tops out at five years, not 17, so if Jazz went to AC why wouldn't AC take the time to think about their cost savings between now and 2035 by potentially going with another operator? For that matter, why would AC accept ending the GGN CPA at the behest of Jazz if GGN is cheaper?

Because they are buying us... And I suspect already own close to 10%. And we really aren't that much more when you roll in our economies of scale... plus everyone is now unionized and the government wont stop either from going on strike. And Calin wants to reassemble the empire before he sails off into the sunset. Put back together what he ripped apart. Anyways... that is my theory.

[Chevy1Ton]

We do stand the risk that the work moves to the other express carriers and we are left with the scraps. Yes there will be jobs to be had, but I would far rather work under our contract than the works rules at Georgian or Sky. No offence to those groups, but overall they are not even close.

And yet, AC has gone scurrying back to Jazz, practically demanding they take the flying back from GGN because the latter has proven incapable of meeting AC's service standards. This whole proposal is basically AC admitting that only Jazz is able to handle the flying reliably; it's not even being used as a bargaining chip for SR in their upcoming negotiations. They didn't put it out for tender or anything, they just went straight to Jazz. This is basically AC management going to Jazz management and begging and pleading for them to take over from GGN, then trying to play it cool when presenting the offer to the pilots: "We'd like you to do the flying, but whatever, take it or leave it. We'll even offer you a few more cents per hour and basically the same PML as you have now because we're so generous, but, like, there are sooo many other pilots out there who would do this work for less than what we're offering." Okay, then why didn't you offer it to them?
Call their bluff.

So RIght!

[Chevy1Ton]

People are playing chicken with our careers and I for one will not stand for this and vote NO

[Chevy1Ton]

We do stand the risk that the work moves to the other express carriers and we are left with the scraps. Yes there will be jobs to be had, but I would far rather work under our contract than the works rules at Georgian or Sky. No offence to those groups, but overall they are not even close.

And yet, AC has gone scurrying back to Jazz, practically demanding they take the flying back from GGN because the latter has proven incapable of meeting AC's service standards. This whole proposal is basically AC admitting that only Jazz is able to handle the flying reliably; it's not even being used as a bargaining chip for SR in their upcoming negotiations. They didn't put it out for tender or anything, they just went straight to Jazz. This is basically AC management going to Jazz management and begging and pleading for them to take over from GGN, then trying to play it cool when presenting the offer to the pilots: "We'd like you to do the flying, but whatever, take it or leave it. We'll even offer you a few more cents per hour and basically the same PML as you have now because we're so generous, but, like, there are sooo many other pilots out there who would do this work for less than what we're offering." Okay, then why didn't you offer it to them?
Call their bluff.

Pal, sounds like you need to go search out some info. That's not at all how it went down from what they said at the road show. That being said I'm sure AC is happy to get rid of GGN in this process.

You shouldn't be going by the road show anyway the MEC Negotiating Committee doesn't care they just wanna push this through. Look back to 2015 by example, you don't shove a contract down people's throats and expect them to sign it with two weeks notice. Chorus and AC shot them selves in the foot the moment they put this public before we even got a chance to vote on it. There to heavily invested now.

[V1Vr]

People are playing chicken with our careers and I for one will not stand for this and vote NO

I'd say voting no is playing chicken with everyone's careers.

[Chevy1Ton]

People are playing chicken with our careers and I for one will not stand for this and vote NO

I'd say voting no is playing chicken with everyone's careers.

We do the best job for AC and we make them look better then even AC does so how do you figure?

[V1Vr]

People are playing chicken with our careers and I for one will not stand for this and vote NO

I'd say voting no is playing chicken with everyone's careers.

We do the best job for AC and we make them look better then even AC does so how do you figure?

By voting yes, we get everything they negotiated plus starting to move the relationship with AC in the right direction. By saying no, the risk is nothing happens, we keep making crap wages and AC views our pilot group as difficult and may start distancing themselves. I don't think it would be hard to build up one of the other carriers in the next 6 years by the time we have another opportunity to go to negotiate.

I won't deny that there is a possibly that they come back right now with a better deal. Personally if they do I don't think it would be that much better. I trust our negotiations team, and they say there is little to zero chance of a second deal right now. Maybe a few small things, but is the risk of voting no and getting nothing worth it?

In my mind, no.

[Rowdy]

SKR is also currently in their negotiations. If we accept this, I'll bet you an adult beverage of your choice, that we will be doing that flying at Jazz with this TA.

I also bet that GGN will continue to operate the CRJ's.

I'd also hazard a guess that we may see another 'express' carrier pop up.

I'd also imagine that the RRA won't happen.

I'd also ask, why we wouldn't take on those SKR folk like we took the GGN ones..

Time will tell!

[V1Vr]

SKR is also currently in their negotiations. If we accept this, I'll bet you an adult beverage of your choice, that we will be doing that flying at Jazz with this TA.

I also bet that GGN will continue to operate the CRJ's.

I'd also hazard a guess that we may see another 'express' carrier pop up.

I'd also imagine that the RRA won't happen.

I'd also ask, why we wouldn't take on those SKR folk like we took the GGN ones..

Time will tell!

The MEC chairman said at the beginning of the negotiations he approached the company with that idea but said AC wasn't willing to consolidate everything right now. Maybe in the future, if we show we are able to work together. I think Calin is still bitter over 2010 won't give up all his leverage in one go.

I think GGN has 3RJs after all of this, but they said AC is closing the CPA with them. If they do charters or something that's their choice but I have a hard time thinking anyone will stay until they start paying Jazz wages.

[Outlaw58]

And yet, AC has gone scurrying back to Jazz, practically demanding they take the flying back from GGN because the latter has proven incapable of meeting AC's service standards. This whole proposal is basically AC admitting that only Jazz is able to handle the flying reliably; it's not even being used as a bargaining chip for SR in their upcoming negotiations. They didn't put it out for tender or anything, they just went straight to Jazz. This is basically AC management going to Jazz management and begging and pleading for them to take over from GGN, then trying to play it cool when presenting the offer to the pilots: "We'd like you to do the flying, but whatever, take it or leave it. We'll even offer you a few more cents per hour and basically the same PML as you have now because we're so generous, but, like, there are sooo many other pilots out there who would do this work for less than what we're offering." Okay, then why didn't you offer it to them?
Call their bluff.

Pal, sounds like you need to go search out some info. That's not at all how it went down from what they said at the road show. That being said I'm sure AC is happy to get rid of GGN in this process.

You shouldn't be going by the road show anyway the MEC Negotiating Committee doesn't care they just wanna push this through. Look back to 2015 by example, you don't shove a contract down people's throats and expect them to sign it with two weeks notice. Chorus and AC shot them selves in the foot the moment they put this public before we even got a chance to vote on it. There to heavily invested now.

O.M.G.

You are actually advocating not going/watching the roadshow.... un freaking believable. Thank you for strengthening my belief that the only way to vote is yes.

58

[Chevy1Ton]

Pal, sounds like you need to go search out some info. That's not at all how it went down from what they said at the road show. That being said I'm sure AC is happy to get rid of GGN in this process.

You shouldn't be going by the road show anyway the MEC Negotiating Committee doesn't care they just wanna push this through. Look back to 2015 by example, you don't shove a contract down people's throats and expect them to sign it with two weeks notice. Chorus and AC shot them selves in the foot the moment they put this public before we even got a chance to vote on it. There to heavily invested now.

O.M.G.

You are actually advocating not going/watching the roadshow.... un freaking believable. Thank you for strengthening my belief that the only way to vote is yes.

58

Another one takes the bait lol now we know why this industry sucks so bad

[Chevy1Ton]

Why do you think a lot of the LEC voted against this that just goes to show this is shit.

[V1Vr]

Why do you think a lot of the LEC voted against this that just goes to show this is shit.

Not a lot. One abstained, two voted no who also happened to vote for a WJ pilot vs. Brian Shury to run a Alpa Canada. They are letting whatever petty past differences they have with the Exec cloud their judgement. I just listened to some of the YUL road show and those certain individuals made themselves look very dumb.

[Chevy1Ton]

Time will tell fingers crossed for NO vote!

[blueskiessabove]

Me too No vote!

[V1Vr]

Ok same person typing under two accounts.

So that's one No vote. Got it.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

We are staring at the leading edge of the biggest pilot shortage in history. Why would anyone lock into a 17year deal with a paltry annual increase???

[V1Vr]

We are staring at the leading edge of the biggest pilot shortage in history. Why would anyone lock into a 17year deal with a paltry annual increase???

Personally I'll take the fixes they propose now, and when the pilot shortage actually shows up (jazz is still filling ground schools) the company will have no choice to come and deal with the pay at that time. To give up table 2 at year 6, yos, flow etc just to try to get a few extra dollars for the first few years FO it's silly. I did the math as a year 2 FO I'll see an immediate 4% raise. Plus the two percent. Actually 4.5% every year with the year of service step. The slide show laid it out pretty nicely showing the increases over table 1. It's not pennies.

[proper]

Agreed, the amount of new accounts popping up daily here is a little ripe.

"Don't go to a roadshow"

"Many LEC's voted it down"

Well the desperation means they must be nervous...

I haven't seen so much cloak and dagger spreading of drama
since the last US election.

Seriously guys...knock it off, we know who you are and what you are....just not the why.


I did appreciate the two for one vote