TA Passed.

[mbav8r]

Big signing bonus to cover up the crap pay, lipstick on a pig is still a pig.
Alaska Airlines Pilot Pathway Program makes it a no-hassle proposition. Alaska Airlines commits to hiring at least 30% of its new hires from Horizon Air.
Year E175 Q400
18 119 119
17 116 116
16 112 112
15 109 109
14 106 106
13 103 103
12 100 100
11 97 97
10 94 94
9 90 90
8 87 87
7 84 84
6 81 81
5 79 79
4 77 77
3 74 74
2 72 72
1 70 70
Year E175 Q400
18 52 52
17 52 52
16 52 52
15 52 52
14 52 52
13 52 52
12 52 52
11 52 52
10 52 52
9 52 52
8 52 52
7 51 51
6 50 50
5 49 49
4 48 48
3 47 47
2 46 46
1 40 40

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Stop trying to make yourself feel better. Jazz is the best regional in Canuckistan but there are far better deals to be had in ALL areas of aviation down south. That is a fact.

[rudder]

ALPA has a great big Economic and Financial Analysis Department.

Get them to make a chart. Using an updated and properly formatted spreadsheet, takes almost no time.

A picture is worth one thousand words.

[av8ts]

Stop trying to make yourself feel better. Jazz is the best regional in Canuckistan but there are far better deals to be had in ALL areas of aviation down south. That is a fact.

As I’ve said in the past. They can quadruple the pay and I still wouldn’t go to Murica. I happen to love Canuckistan

[JohnnyHotRocks]

To each their own of course

[mbav8r]

Stop trying to make yourself feel better. Jazz is the best regional in Canuckistan but there are far better deals to be had in ALL areas of aviation down south. That is a fact.

Well if all these pilots would just go there instead of accepting the crap pay we would have to raise the pay to keep them, oh yah, they can’t.
It’s called selective memory, the US regionals started the race, no, led the race to the bottom, now that they can’t just throw any 250 hour wonder into the right seat, they are giving out signing or retention bonuses. Some have improved conditions but overall the crap pay remains.
What do you think would happen here if we couldn’t just hire any old CPL?
Instead we’ve filled well over a thousand vacancies in the last few years, hardly seems like a shortage.
Let me be perfectly clear, we took a stand in 2010, we raised the bottom pay up to within 3,000 of the AC starting pay, we voted to stop the race. For our stand, 98% of us, we were rewarded with Sky Regional and GGN, both who undercut our wages.
SR wages have come up since, can you guess why, they were have trouble filling vacancies, GGN too but they still managed to keep trucking.
So, pardon me for not sacrificing the remainder of my career, what are you doing to make the industry better Johnny?

[Rowdy]

mb, Dollar for dollar, the US regionals have more buying power. Whats forty trump bucks worth here? 40x 1.3 = $52. Even lowest paid Tjet at $37/hr is $48hr canadian. Get ready for us to be doing all the US transborder flying, undercutting those fine folk to the south in those fancy 900's we're getting from Skywest. I'm sure they'll be pleased to see you in the terminals.

How much is a house in any of skywests bases? How about mesa? Commutair? I looked. You could buy my 800k fraser valley home in most of their domiciles for 250k US or 325k canuck bucks and I'm over an hour and fifteen min. drive. Lets look at that cost too..

Gas here in YVR is 1.39/l or 5.28/gal. Right across the line in bellingham.. 2.35gal.. which even with the conversion works out to .80/L

I could continue to point out all the higher costs associated with living here or at any of the Canadian Jazz base cities, but I'm sure you get the point.

Have you personally scrutinized their contracts? I have.. They're close to par with us when it comes to scheduling and benefits.

Don't forget the US jump seat is wide open. Unlike ours.

Oh, and lets not even talk about their getting 10-20-30k bonuses. But I guess I should be proud to have a canadian industry leading $1300 pre tax bonus for a 17yr deal.

[V1Vr]

mb, Dollar for dollar, the US regionals have more buying power. Whats forty trump bucks worth here? 40x 1.3 = $52. Even lowest paid Tjet at $37/hr is $48hr canadian. Get ready for us to be doing all the US transborder flying, undercutting those fine folk to the south in those fancy 900's we're getting from Skywest. I'm sure they'll be pleased to see you in the terminals.

How much is a house in any of skywests bases? How about mesa? Commutair? I looked. You could buy my 800k fraser valley home in most of their domiciles for 250k US or 325k canuck bucks and I'm over an hour and fifteen min. drive. Lets look at that cost too..

Gas here in YVR is 1.39/l or 5.28/gal. Right across the line in bellingham.. 2.35gal.. which even with the conversion works out to .80/L

I could continue to point out all the higher costs associated with living here or at any of the Canadian Jazz base cities, but I'm sure you get the point.

Have you personally scrutinized their contracts? I have.. They're close to par with us when it comes to scheduling and benefits.

Don't forget the US jump seat is wide open. Unlike ours.

Oh, and lets not even talk about their getting 10-20-30k bonuses. But I guess I should be proud to have a canadian industry leading $1300 pre tax bonus for a 17yr deal.

Do you buy your things in US dollars?

Do Americans buy their things in Canadian dollars?

That's not how economies and economics work. It's a moot point.

Take a look at the majority of the bases for the us regionals. Big cities, high COL, many pilots even with current pay all commute because they can't afford it. You mention Commutair, well their Jr base is EWR so let's see you buy a house anywhere near NYC on regional salary.

I don't think you've actually "scrutinized" anything.

Go take a look at how much money they lose each check for medical premiums...

How about mat leave? Right... Nothing.

85 credits of paid no questions asked sick time? Nope.

2 weeks vacation to start up to what, like 6? Nope.

4.5 min day? Nope.

Trip and duty rig? Most of them, nope.

No airport reserve.. Nope.

12 min days off? Some of them but most, nope.

Undercutting US regionals to fly trans border? Nope. Total cost of our contract per pilot including EVERYTHING is more money.

You yourself said you made $80+k last year working 6 days a month. I'm guessing you're on RTB? Or volunteer reserve? Good luck trying to do that at ANY US regional. Your lifestyle wouldn't not be anything like it is right now. If you want the big money as you put it, well go sell that 800k house and apply at AirWis or Commutair, they sponsor Canadians.

[Rowdy]

mb, Dollar for dollar, the US regionals have more buying power. Whats forty trump bucks worth here? 40x 1.3 = $52. Even lowest paid Tjet at $37/hr is $48hr canadian. Get ready for us to be doing all the US transborder flying, undercutting those fine folk to the south in those fancy 900's we're getting from Skywest. I'm sure they'll be pleased to see you in the terminals.

How much is a house in any of skywests bases? How about mesa? Commutair? I looked. You could buy my 800k fraser valley home in most of their domiciles for 250k US or 325k canuck bucks and I'm over an hour and fifteen min. drive. Lets look at that cost too..

Gas here in YVR is 1.39/l or 5.28/gal. Right across the line in bellingham.. 2.35gal.. which even with the conversion works out to .80/L

I could continue to point out all the higher costs associated with living here or at any of the Canadian Jazz base cities, but I'm sure you get the point.

Have you personally scrutinized their contracts? I have.. They're close to par with us when it comes to scheduling and benefits.

Don't forget the US jump seat is wide open. Unlike ours.

Oh, and lets not even talk about their getting 10-20-30k bonuses. But I guess I should be proud to have a canadian industry leading $1300 pre tax bonus for a 17yr deal.

Do you buy your things in US dollars?

Do Americans buy their things in Canadian dollars?

That's not how economies and economics work. It's a moot point.

Take a look at the majority of the bases for the us regionals. Big cities, high COL, many pilots even with current pay all commute because they can't afford it. You mention Commutair, well their Jr base is EWR so let's see you buy a house anywhere near NYC on regional salary.

I don't think you've actually "scrutinized" anything.

Go take a look at how much money they lose each check for medical premiums...

How about mat leave? Right... Nothing.

85 credits of paid no questions asked sick time? Nope.

2 weeks vacation to start up to what, like 6? Nope.

4.5 min day? Nope.

Trip and duty rig? Most of them, nope.

No airport reserve.. Nope.

12 min days off? Some of them but most, nope.

Undercutting US regionals to fly trans border? Nope. Total cost of our contract per pilot including EVERYTHING is more money.

You yourself said you made $80+k last year working 6 days a month. I'm guessing you're on RTB? Or volunteer reserve? Good luck trying to do that at ANY US regional. Your lifestyle wouldn't not be anything like it is right now. If you want the big money as you put it, well go sell that 800k house and apply at AirWis or Commutair, they sponsor Canadians.

I hope you're not one of our union negotiators.

[V1Vr]

mb, Dollar for dollar, the US regionals have more buying power. Whats forty trump bucks worth here? 40x 1.3 = $52. Even lowest paid Tjet at $37/hr is $48hr canadian. Get ready for us to be doing all the US transborder flying, undercutting those fine folk to the south in those fancy 900's we're getting from Skywest. I'm sure they'll be pleased to see you in the terminals.

How much is a house in any of skywests bases? How about mesa? Commutair? I looked. You could buy my 800k fraser valley home in most of their domiciles for 250k US or 325k canuck bucks and I'm over an hour and fifteen min. drive. Lets look at that cost too..

Gas here in YVR is 1.39/l or 5.28/gal. Right across the line in bellingham.. 2.35gal.. which even with the conversion works out to .80/L

I could continue to point out all the higher costs associated with living here or at any of the Canadian Jazz base cities, but I'm sure you get the point.

Have you personally scrutinized their contracts? I have.. They're close to par with us when it comes to scheduling and benefits.

Don't forget the US jump seat is wide open. Unlike ours.

Oh, and lets not even talk about their getting 10-20-30k bonuses. But I guess I should be proud to have a canadian industry leading $1300 pre tax bonus for a 17yr deal.

Do you buy your things in US dollars?

Do Americans buy their things in Canadian dollars?

That's not how economies and economics work. It's a moot point.

Take a look at the majority of the bases for the us regionals. Big cities, high COL, many pilots even with current pay all commute because they can't afford it. You mention Commutair, well their Jr base is EWR so let's see you buy a house anywhere near NYC on regional salary.

I don't think you've actually "scrutinized" anything.

Go take a look at how much money they lose each check for medical premiums...

How about mat leave? Right... Nothing.

85 credits of paid no questions asked sick time? Nope.

2 weeks vacation to start up to what, like 6? Nope.

4.5 min day? Nope.

Trip and duty rig? Most of them, nope.

No airport reserve.. Nope.

12 min days off? Some of them but most, nope.

Undercutting US regionals to fly trans border? Nope. Total cost of our contract per pilot including EVERYTHING is more money.

You yourself said you made $80+k last year working 6 days a month. I'm guessing you're on RTB? Or volunteer reserve? Good luck trying to do that at ANY US regional. Your lifestyle wouldn't not be anything like it is right now. If you want the big money as you put it, well go sell that 800k house and apply at AirWis or Commutair, they sponsor Canadians.

I hope you're not one of our union negotiators.

Just a pilot who's done some research.

Care to reply to anything I said or are you just trying to deflect?

[Rowdy]

Reply to someone who continues to make statements without support. Here are the answers.

Yes I do buy things in US dollars. Constantly having things shipped to my US mailbox as a result of our over inflated costs and tax structure. Plus the ridiculous costs of shipping in this country. It STILL saves me money. I just used my money from my income source outside of Jazz to buy some wheels for my classic car. In canada.. $1400 plus Tax. I had them SHIPPED and covered duty for $650. This happens ALL the time.

Americans spent a considerable amount of their dollars in this country. Our tourism sector will showcase that easily.

Have you taken any post secondary causes in economics? I have a background in business management and graduated with honors. Our economy is tied directly to our compatriots south of the 49th. Sure they have better economies of scale in some areas.

YVR and YYZ beat out most of the american regional cities for COL.

Lets look at commutair. Sign-on Bonus of $45,000. Pilot Referral Bonus - up to $2,500 per pilot. Interview with United immediately after hire. Commuter Benefits- 4 hotel room/month, commuting policy identical to ours, and paid parking. DH credit. Duty rig. Min credit. Up to 50% of 12% of earnings for pension. Health and Dental. Current year one FO is 42/hr. I've looked through the pay scale.

Okay.. How about Skywest. $7500 bonus. $45/hr pay, 65hr guarantee in Training, and 76hr guarantee after training for the first year. vacation, sick, deadhead, min day credit and a duty rig. Pay rates are higher. They have medical and dental. Their retirement package almost exactly matches ours.

Most are 18 days max. I'll stalk both my friends at skywest and republic.. but I'm fairly certain they average 82hrs and work 15 days much like we do.

Have you seen what we pay for our medical/dental/std etc? Its huge. Seriously.. go in to ultipro right now and have a good look. I bet you based on our tax rates and our upfront extended health costs that we are IDENTICAL in that regard.

How about Encore? How about the others that have UNLIMITED SICK TIME. Many others have a day cap, its usually enough to transition like ours into STD. . No questions asked. No bs 'attendance wellness program' where you get a call if you book off 6 times in a year.

Mat leave. You do know that has nothing to do with the company. But I do know that there is paid leave at a couple of the US regionals.

We end up with a form of airport reserve with the REA rules and our long sits. There hasn't been a single +2hr sit where I haven't been reassigned. Usually on a day that it doesn't benefit me credit wise.

Forced reserve my first year as a capt. Last year was on an RTB. I'll be pushed back onto reserve with the changes that are coming.

I'm not talking poorly of jazz. I enjoy working here and generally like everyone I fly with. I like my local overnights. I like the dash. I like how we interact with dispatch, stoc, mx etc. Its great from a support standpoint.

I just think we're worth a bit more. I'm not looking for 777 or wide body pay. I'd just like what the guys hired 3 months prior to me had.

[proper]

Some people will always say the earth is flat.

[mbav8r]

Rowdy,
I had a fairly in depth response to you but lost it, so the short version, we(majority) voted for this deal. It’s 17 years of cost neutral for the most part.
I think we can all agree that in order to make gains there needs to be a shortage of applicants, you were one and yes I know you interviewed before the new deal but nonetheless you had a choice to turn it down, you obviously didn’t. You seem to think we have some type of leverage but I would argue that the well over 1000 new pilots hired since the new deal have given leverage to the company.
You’re comparing apples to oranges because they have a shortage, we don’t! You could make more elsewhere, why not give us some leverage for the next round and vote with your feet. Thought not.
One other thing for you to ponder, the senior pilots on the top scale, of whom there are plenty have not had more than 2% in over a decade. In 2010, all the gains were in the bottom, we brought the starting wage to within a couple grand of AC, 2015 had status quo again for Jazz pilots and losses at the bottom, 2019 still just 2% for senior and all the improvements to make life better for the junior pilots, outside of a locked in 10 year contract, you would have had us vote no, potentially no improvements of the current agreement and an uncertain future. Is that how you run your side business, roll the dice and hope for the best, that might work if you’re the only guy offering that service or widget. Otherwise, I imagine pricing yourself above your competitors might have the same result, no business.
Do we make more than the average Canadian, after all that’s who we share the pain of paying more for the same, more taxes and more for fuel, more for housing, etc.
You might as well let this go now, it’s done! All we can do is move on and if and when we actually do have leverage, we can maximize it as best we can.

[proper]

Respectfully Rowdy....
The parental RTB we have is a company thing that is unmatched in Canada.

[flashheart]

Rowdy - is on the right track

The Jazz & "Canada is the best" koolaid is strong here.

I would leave this 99% arctic tundra in a heart beat for what they have down there. Better pay & way more buying power with the money you have.

But it's "apple and oranges". So no need to look...umm...Koolaid

[C-GGGQ]

I would just like to point out that those cult members were drinking flavoraid, not koolaid. We've drug Koolaid good name through the mud for long enough

[mbav8r]

Rowdy - is on the right track

The Jazz & "Canada is the best" koolaid is strong here.

I would leave this 99% arctic tundra in a heart beat for what they have down there. Better pay & way more buying power with the money you have.

But it's "apple and oranges". So no need to look...umm...Koolaid

Umm, so go, who’s stopping you!
It appears that some people have lost touch with reality, we are not the US and we do not have a shortage of pilots in Canada, so comparing any airline to them is pointless.

[flyzam]

Rowdy - is on the right track

The Jazz & "Canada is the best" koolaid is strong here.

I would leave this 99% arctic tundra in a heart beat for what they have down there. Better pay & way more buying power with the money you have.

But it's "apple and oranges". So no need to look...umm...Koolaid

Umm, so go, who’s stopping you!
It appears that some people have lost touch with reality, we are not the US and we do not have a shortage of pilots in Canada, so comparing any airline to them is pointless.

How should we compare Canada to then?

[Rowdy]

Respectfully Rowdy....
The parental RTB we have is a company thing that is unmatched in Canada.

Proper, I never once said that we didn't have a couple little niceties in the contract. I chose to come here. I chose to stay. I was looking forward to 2025 and the chance to regain what once was here. Now It'll never, ever happen.

I'm over it.

[GhostRider6]

Hey Rowdy,

You’re making too much sense!! Stop it!

I too, buy stuff in the US that are big ticket items. The cost savings can significant.. if you do the math

As I’ve said, right away, in any situation where people are asking you to sign rather quickly.

As V1VR2 cited .. two weeks to think over the next 17 years. That should automatically raise some red flags in the mediation, court, arbitration or business world. ( which I’ve been a part of)


This DOES NOT mean Jazz is a horrific place to work. ( from from it from what I gather) It does not mean Alpha is horrible and should be sent for a lynching.

It DOES mean we should examine what is happening around us and think critically about what’s happening around us and challenge it !