AC flow agreement
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AC flow agreement
Just wondering when this 60% class component of Express candidates for AC PIT course takes effect? The July 22nd class was all OTS, so clearly not yet. Just curious. Thanks.
Re: AC flow agreement
It's 60% annually as far as I know. So they're allowed to do some classes that are all OTS
Re: AC flow agreement
It's been in effect since April 1st in regards to the offers in seniority and no more than %10 turn down rate.
The %60 is based on annual numbers, not per class.
The majority of new hires since April 1st have been from Jazz.
From my understanding, Jazz has been cancelling an absurd amount of flights which are Air Canada paying passengers and Air Canada flights.
The "flow" agreement was predicated on the GGN pilots moving to Jazz, and by doing so increasing the pilot supply at Jazz allowing AC to take a lot of Jazz pilots.
Since the 737 MAX has been grounded and the GGN planes are still flying (since pulling the planes off line to be inspected for Jazz, and the pilots to go through initial training would reduce overall AC lift in a time of need) you are seeing less Jazz pilots go over right now but sill WAY more than we've seen per class over the last 3-4 years. Additionally the ground schools at AC are smaller than originally planned with many hovering around the 24 pilots per class with a few larger 40+, vs what was originally planned at multiple 40+ new hire classes a month. So you may think you're "missing out" on seniority, when in fact AC has been hiring less pilots so the net loss in seniority may be close to NIL.
As the GGN pilots start to move over this fall to Jazz you will see the overall amount of Jazz pilots getting offers at AC increase. Currently AC is close to the %60 minimum, and by taking a break right now in order to keep the integrity of the AC route structure all they will need to do is have majority Jazz pilots come fall in all the classes to make up for it. AC is still interviewing many, many Jazz pilots each week so things have not slowed down in that respect. Just the offers are on pause until likely September (although I know a bunch of Jazz pilots who will be in the August 12th class).
So in so many words, keep calm and don't worry.
The %60 is based on annual numbers, not per class.
The majority of new hires since April 1st have been from Jazz.
From my understanding, Jazz has been cancelling an absurd amount of flights which are Air Canada paying passengers and Air Canada flights.
The "flow" agreement was predicated on the GGN pilots moving to Jazz, and by doing so increasing the pilot supply at Jazz allowing AC to take a lot of Jazz pilots.
Since the 737 MAX has been grounded and the GGN planes are still flying (since pulling the planes off line to be inspected for Jazz, and the pilots to go through initial training would reduce overall AC lift in a time of need) you are seeing less Jazz pilots go over right now but sill WAY more than we've seen per class over the last 3-4 years. Additionally the ground schools at AC are smaller than originally planned with many hovering around the 24 pilots per class with a few larger 40+, vs what was originally planned at multiple 40+ new hire classes a month. So you may think you're "missing out" on seniority, when in fact AC has been hiring less pilots so the net loss in seniority may be close to NIL.
As the GGN pilots start to move over this fall to Jazz you will see the overall amount of Jazz pilots getting offers at AC increase. Currently AC is close to the %60 minimum, and by taking a break right now in order to keep the integrity of the AC route structure all they will need to do is have majority Jazz pilots come fall in all the classes to make up for it. AC is still interviewing many, many Jazz pilots each week so things have not slowed down in that respect. Just the offers are on pause until likely September (although I know a bunch of Jazz pilots who will be in the August 12th class).
So in so many words, keep calm and don't worry.
Re: AC flow agreement
Define absurd. Because I would dispute the accuracy of that statement
Re: AC flow agreement
2 years ago they cancelled an absurd amount of flights due to pilot shortage but I don’t think I’ve heard of that this year. I haven’t had too many calls for overtime this year.
Let’s Go Brandon
Re: AC flow agreement
The word I heard was 90 flights cancelled last weekend. I've been called multiple times every day off I've had in July and offered overtime. Without being on the WDO tracker. I finally had to ask to be put on the no call list. How is it legal or right for them to be able to call at 3am on a day off?!?!?
In my opinion we are most certainly short crews. You can see it when you look at the baselines and then the number of FO's on certain machines. Big gaps. Also lots of flying sitting in open, especially out west.
There have been a plethora of Jazz pilots in the last few AC PIT courses. I know the august course is also stacked with jazz pilots. A great time for anyone wanting to go to AC.
In my opinion we are most certainly short crews. You can see it when you look at the baselines and then the number of FO's on certain machines. Big gaps. Also lots of flying sitting in open, especially out west.
There have been a plethora of Jazz pilots in the last few AC PIT courses. I know the august course is also stacked with jazz pilots. A great time for anyone wanting to go to AC.
Re: AC flow agreement
I heard over 90 in YVR last week or the week before (can't remember which) alone. And just due to crewing, not including other cancellations.
Re: AC flow agreement
This is what I heard too. A friend of mine said they can basically count on being called at least twice a day, every day. Once for day stuff, once for the inevitable stand up. I think a lot of people have been putting themselves on the "no call" list.Rowdy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:30 pm The word I heard was 90 flights cancelled last weekend. I've been called multiple times every day off I've had in July and offered overtime. Without being on the WDO tracker. I finally had to ask to be put on the no call list. How is it legal or right for them to be able to call at 3am on a day off?!?!?
In my opinion we are most certainly short crews. You can see it when you look at the baselines and then the number of FO's on certain machines. Big gaps. Also lots of flying sitting in open, especially out west.
There have been a plethora of Jazz pilots in the last few AC PIT courses. I know the august course is also stacked with jazz pilots. A great time for anyone wanting to go to AC.
Rowdy, if you don't want to get called at 3AM but don't want to be on the no call list try the do not disturb mode on your phone where you can silence it for a certain time and allow calls through after say 8-9am. That way you won't be woken up at 3AM but a call at 8-9 would go through.
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Re: AC flow agreement
If they're cancelling that many flights, how come they didn't bother with attractive pay packages with the recent TA?
Re: AC flow agreement
You forget there's 220 GGN pilots slated to come over. I don't think Jazz will have any trouble finding new hires, just look at the thread here about how many people are in the pool? They just haven't been hiring many OTS since they have to take all the GGN pilots and would then end up thick on the rosters once that happened. Now finding pilots ready to upgrade may be a different story. I bet Jazz will start offering DEC before the end of next year. My wager, anyhow.goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:03 pm If they're cancelling that many flights, how come they didn't bother with attractive pay packages with the recent TA?
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Re: AC flow agreement
Better come up with a good agreement for DEC. Have a continual flow of upgrading FOs to keep you at the bottom of the captain seniority list for years. Doesn't sound attractive to those interested.
Re: AC flow agreement
Doesn’t the flow agreement have some sort of “unless operationally required provision?”
Re: AC flow agreement
It says parties will meet to discuss if required, but no set policy meaning the company likely needs to make a solid case for not abiding by the flow.
That being said, I don't get what the concern is I just went through the new hire bios since April and there's a lot of JAZZ. Just because one class is all OTS doesn't mean much. They are interviewing Jazz pilots non stop right now, likely for Sept/Oct full bore hiring mode.
Re: AC flow agreement
Good. The less people that want to come DEC the better. Then when they can't upgrade anyone there will be a pinch and finally have no choice but to raise pay.goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:44 pm Better come up with a good agreement for DEC. Have a continual flow of upgrading FOs to keep you at the bottom of the captain seniority list for years. Doesn't sound attractive to those interested.
Look at Envoy, starting FO $50 USD an hour. CommutAir $50,000 USD signing bonus with 1000 Pt 121 time. Canada is not the USA... yes, but it's only a matter of time before we start seeing a few minor gains (I doubt we'll ever see US level pay but an increase is better than no increase).
Re: AC flow agreement
I was on the no call list and still got called a handful of times this past week. My phone is on DND from 10pm to 6am every day.Warden wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:18 pm
This is what I heard too. A friend of mine said they can basically count on being called at least twice a day, every day. Once for day stuff, once for the inevitable stand up. I think a lot of people have been putting themselves on the "no call" list.
Rowdy, if you don't want to get called at 3AM but don't want to be on the no call list try the do not disturb mode on your phone where you can silence it for a certain time and allow calls through after say 8-9am. That way you won't be woken up at 3AM but a call at 8-9 would go through.
ACARS today to offer me more WDO's. Accepted one that was reasonable and then got called a couple hours later and reassigned to one that was crap. Gotta love it.
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Re: AC flow agreement
Are you able to refuse or turn down the reassignment given it's on a WDO?
Re: AC flow agreement
No you can't..... So I only take the gravy wdo's... 1 or 2 legs in a day, add 2 hours in my timebank on top if not I will just stay home and find someone else.
If I can't make 1k$ on a wdo, not worth my time in my opinion.
If I can't make 1k$ on a wdo, not worth my time in my opinion.
Re: AC flow agreement
Ouch, nothing worse than saying yes to an overtime shift and then getting reassigned!Rowdy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:34 pmI was on the no call list and still got called a handful of times this past week. My phone is on DND from 10pm to 6am every day.Warden wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:18 pm
This is what I heard too. A friend of mine said they can basically count on being called at least twice a day, every day. Once for day stuff, once for the inevitable stand up. I think a lot of people have been putting themselves on the "no call" list.
Rowdy, if you don't want to get called at 3AM but don't want to be on the no call list try the do not disturb mode on your phone where you can silence it for a certain time and allow calls through after say 8-9am. That way you won't be woken up at 3AM but a call at 8-9 would go through.
ACARS today to offer me more WDO's. Accepted one that was reasonable and then got called a couple hours later and reassigned to one that was crap. Gotta love it.
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Re: AC flow agreement
Ouch, that's too bad. Great incentive to help out the company...
At my current company that happened to me once. I called them back and said the reassignment won't have me back in time for my personal plans, so I'm turning down the whole day. My day off, my schedule, I decide what I accept.
At my current company that happened to me once. I called them back and said the reassignment won't have me back in time for my personal plans, so I'm turning down the whole day. My day off, my schedule, I decide what I accept.