Upcoming Jazz station closures

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Splash
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Upcoming Jazz station closures

#1 Post by Splash » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:04 am

As much as this announcement effects primarily ground agents,it certainly gives one an indication of where things are going.

http://caw2002tca.ca/NewsRoom/jazz-csaa ... ality.aspx
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#2 Post by cj555 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:46 am

If I understand correctly (from the article) this means Jazz will be closing 8 bases, and laying off 300 people.

Will this affect the pilot group? Or just the Customer Service (CSA) and Aircraft Service (ACS) group?
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#3 Post by Splash » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:53 am

cj555 wrote:If I understand correctly (from the article) this means Jazz will be closing 8 bases, and laying off 300 people.

Will this affect the pilot group? Or just the Customer Service (CSA) and Aircraft Service (ACS) group?
It's a trickle down effect I would imagine. My guess is that the YVR to YZP YPR YYD flying will get outsourced to say Hawkair as an example. That flying would no longer be available to pilots and flight attendants.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#4 Post by cj555 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:00 pm

Splash wrote:
cj555 wrote:If I understand correctly (from the article) this means Jazz will be closing 8 bases, and laying off 300 people.

Will this affect the pilot group? Or just the Customer Service (CSA) and Aircraft Service (ACS) group?
It's a trickle down effect I would imagine. My guess is that the YVR to YZP YPR YYD flying will get outsourced to say Hawkair as an example. That flying would no longer be available to pilots and flight attendants.

Not a good sign for Jazz pilots, especially new hires. I wonder what the future of Jazz holds with the current contract with AC expiring in 2020 (I believe) plus this recent closure/layoff?
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#5 Post by Inverted2 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:48 pm

cj555 wrote:
Splash wrote:
cj555 wrote:If I understand correctly (from the article) this means Jazz will be closing 8 bases, and laying off 300 people.

Will this affect the pilot group? Or just the Customer Service (CSA) and Aircraft Service (ACS) group?
It's a trickle down effect I would imagine. My guess is that the YVR to YZP YPR YYD flying will get outsourced to say Hawkair as an example. That flying would no longer be available to pilots and flight attendants.

Not a good sign for Jazz pilots, especially new hires. I wonder what the future of Jazz holds with the current contract with AC expiring in 2020 (I believe) plus this recent closure/layoff?
Correct, the greedy CEO's of these companies want to outsource as much as they can. I suppose the laid off workers can re-apply to the new company if they don't mind 12-13 dollars an hour.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#6 Post by Splash » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:58 pm

cj555 wrote:Not a good sign for Jazz pilots, especially new hires.
New hires with continue to turn over for greener pastures and those that stay will be stuck in the right seat hoping for movement from those that retire.
Inverted2 wrote: I suppose the laid off workers can re-apply to the new company if they don't mind 12-13 dollars an hour.
I would be surprised if they would be that generous. It's likely in the example of the northern BC bases a case where the flying will go to the lowest bidder,my guess is it will be between Pacific Coastal and Hawkair to see how low they are willing to go. The end result is that the lowest bidder will be partially counting on paying minimum wages to low-ball.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#7 Post by YYCAME » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:50 pm

It seems like these things go in cycles as management tries to make their mark by changing something to improve the cost structure. All I know is YYC but rather then laying off grooming, tow crews it would make more sense to try and market those services on the side to other companies if they really feel that our people are under utilized. Obviously there is demand out there for it or there wouldn't even be 3rd parties to contract that out too. The likely reason is this requires more work for someone to organize while just slashing the dept. is the faster and less risky way to get a bonus. Though I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the competitive race to the bottom as each company tries to pay less for the same level of performance.

As an added bonus the company might not have to pay as much on Jazz ensemble bonuses as our performance numbers drop because of this :)
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Last edited by YYCAME on Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#8 Post by flyer 1492 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:10 pm

This is just the tip of the iceberg. West Jet will do the same thing to the bases that Encore takes over. That's where they will find some of their 100,000,000.00 savings.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#9 Post by prop2jet » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:41 pm

These proposed cuts apply to ground services. Does it have an immediate impact on staffing levels on the aircraft, no. This is yet another example of how Jazz will cut as much as they can by way of operating costs to ensure that they can continue to pay out that huge dividend. Jazz is likely going to end up having to cut the rate it charges to AC and the offset is to eliminate the other costs.

This does nothing to improve morale around this place and everyone should take note. Management will lavish all sorts of praise and claim all sorts of commendations but at the end of the day, the message is simple... you / we that work for Jazz and make it what it is are expandable.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#10 Post by Splash » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:13 pm

prop2jet wrote:This is yet another example of how Jazz will cut as much as they can by way of operating costs to ensure that they can continue to pay out that huge dividend.
The irony is that some employees partake in the ESOP and may themselves ultimately be victims of cost savings in order to maintain the dividends.
prop2jet wrote: Does it have an immediate impact on staffing levels on the aircraft, no.
You are absolutely correct. There is nothing that suggests the flying will be outsourced,other than someone else might be willing to do it for less if given the opportunity.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#11 Post by teacher » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:25 pm

This has nothing to do with flying. Out sourcing of ground services, that's it. I expect more of this as margins get squeezed and the "Sky Regional and Encore can do it cheaper" rhetoric picks up. Truth is, they can. Encore ground service agents will make less than their mainline co workers etc etc......

This is cost control, that's it. It's cheaper for Jazz to contract out these services than to employee these people itself. AC could only dream of doing the same thing.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#12 Post by Splash » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:52 pm

It's interesting to note,Jazz the CPA contractor,is trying to sub out it's work in respect to tow crews and groomers in the hubs. The small base closures are noteworthy as it likely means AC has decided to exit those small markets or give the flying to someone else who will do their own ground-handling. I don't honestly know what AC has in mind other than it's still possible that Jazz aircraft will continue to operate into the effected stations,although I doubt it.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#13 Post by truedude » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:41 pm

Splash wrote:It's interesting to note,Jazz the CPA contractor,is trying to sub out it's work in respect to tow crews and groomers in the hubs. The small base closures are noteworthy as it likely means AC has decided to exit those small markets or give the flying to someone else who will do their own ground-handling. I don't honestly know what AC has in mind other than it's still possible that Jazz aircraft will continue to operate into the effected stations,although I doubt it.
I don't think your interpretation is correct. Some of those bases are already served by non Jazz aircraft, such as CYXH and most of the flights into CYQL. A lot of Jazz flying is currently protected under the CPA, which has certain guarantees with it. Of course moving forward, we are going to feel the pinch, but concluding that Air Canada is exiting those smaller markets is ridiculous, as some of those destinations Air Canada enjoys a near monopoly.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#14 Post by teacher » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:26 am

Seriously, it's about cutting costs. Jazz is gonna feel the pinch from AC so the cutting has to start and it's cheaper to sub this work than to employ your own staff.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#15 Post by Mig29 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:01 am

Well that sucks for those people....it's not like they were overpaid, just had a reasonable leaving wage. I think the payscale ranges between 11-19$/hr. Decent living wage I'd say...and it sucks for the third party provider because they will get sub standard wages.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#16 Post by Hackmech » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:51 am

Just another example of Jazz "The incredible Shrinking Company". I've been with Jazz for a mere 8 years and the changes I've witnessed are incredible , notably the downward spiral of respect and care the Jazz has for its employees. I shudder when I think how this company will approach the post Current CPA era in 2020.
This rant was not to piss anyone off, just thoughts of a concerned employee.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#17 Post by ourkid2000 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:46 am

Hackmech wrote:Just another example of Jazz "The incredible Shrinking Company". I've been with Jazz for a mere 8 years and the changes I've witnessed are incredible , notably the downward spiral of respect and care the Jazz has for its employees. I shudder when I think how this company will approach the post Current CPA era in 2020.
This rant was not to piss anyone off, just thoughts of a concerned employee.
Wait a minute.....I remembered a conversation we had a while back.
ourkid2000 wrote: Hopefully, things will get better soon. If you're looking to be treated as a professional, this is not the place for you. If your happy to put your head down, go to work, collect paycheck and go home......you'll do just fine.
And you responded....
Hackmech wrote:Gonna have to disagree with you on that one. The culture at Jazz is very diverse from base to base. I've been to all our bases and from my perspective and from others that have visited and worked some overtime/relief at the heavy bases, is the opinion that you've made your own bed. Low morale starts with the employees. Jazz is a great company to work, you just have to ignore some of the negative attitude that is present at the heavy bases, and as far as being treated like a professional, well you're going to get the respect when you earn it, its not just automatically given.
Still feel the same?
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#18 Post by Cam » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:52 pm

These are those TCU you see on the horizon that you're flying towards.

My CAW rep, says those (on the CAW site) are the proposals the company is putting forward. They may (probably) won't get all of those request.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#19 Post by Obbie » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:24 am

The unions are not going to be able to do a single thing to stop what is about to happen.

This is a fundamental industry reconfiguration and the wheels are already in motion.

Jazz management got it started by being stupid during contract negotiations and
caused mainline to panic. The bubble was popped at that point and the wheels were
set in motion.

We will look like the US in 5 years.

Anyone who can should get out of the regional sector of the industry ASAP,
because their career is about to take a shit kicking. :smt021
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#20 Post by Splash » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:09 am

Obbie wrote:This is a fundamental industry reconfiguration and the wheels are already in motion
That about sums it up. One just has to look south of the border to get an idea how this is likely to unfold. At the end of the day,it's just business and workers must not take it personally. We,like the product being sold to consumers,are also a commodity and market forces will dictate our destiny. The pressure will continue to be exerted on labour costs going forward and we need to adapt to the changes. If one thinks of their labour as a commodity,then it's a choice as to whom you wish to offer it.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#21 Post by gianthammer » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:41 pm

Cutting costs by getting rid of the overpaid CSAs to be replaced with wannabe pilots by the local operator, what's next is Jazz going to start paying pilots and AMEs below industry standard? :twisted:
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#22 Post by TrailerParkBoy » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:58 am

We will look like the US in 5 years.

Mergers of the biggest companies is next! So who will AC be bought out by?
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#23 Post by cj555 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:47 am

Speaking of mergers, American Airlines & US Airways just announced a merger whcih will form the largest airline in the world.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2 ... erger.html
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#24 Post by acer99 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:59 am

Any undate on these announced closures. Has anyone at Jazz really tried to figure out the opportunities that are out there as far as ground handling goes. In YYJ Jazz handles mutiple airlines and would assume is making a profit at this base. Have they looked at opening up other bases. ie YLW or YMM. Just a thought.
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Re: Upcoming Jazz station closures

#25 Post by Splash » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:48 pm

acer99 wrote:Any undate on these announced closures.
The issue is currently before Tom Hodges for mediation/arbitration 27-29 March.

Jazz has a number of individual contracts at a number of stations for ground handling of UA Express flights. I have no idea how profitable they are.
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