Jumpseat Priority

[klimman123]

Hi

Just curious what the priority sequence would be for an AC Pilot to sit in the actual jump seat. I ask because I was bumped out by a CSA Agent. That's fine if that is how it works. However, I was "un-officially" told the priority was Pilots first.

Thanks

[countryhick]

If it was a Jazz employee than yes they are ahead of an AC pilot as per our COM.

[Plim Sole]

Yup, Jazz CSA trumps AC Pilot for the cockpit jump seat.

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

That's too bad that you COM has to spell it out for you. I was always under the impression that the jumpseat belonged to the Captian, and out of simple professional respect, absent of any other personal factors, the priority was given to other Pilots over other eligible flight crew.
And yet again the 'Professional' bar moves lower. Maybe we should all start wearing blue collared shirts instead of the white ones.

[Plim Sole]

Easy there Jimmy... I don't think the 'bar' has been lowered at all.
The cockpit jumpseat is controlled by the company, it is afterall their aircraft! A Captain has the right to refuse access to the jumpseat if he/she wishes but does not have the authority to override the priority list as set by the company. The Captain does not 'own' the jumpseat. A Captain (at least at Jazz) can not refuse access to the jumpseat and then offer it to someone else with a lower priority than the person refused.

A Jazz pilot will always get first dibs on a Jazz aircraft. A Jazz CSA beats an AC pilot because he/she is a Jazz employee. Seems perfectly fair that another company employee gets less priority than a company employee.
Its a 2-way street, a Jazz pilot has a lower priority than an AC CSA.

Seems to work just fine.

Plim

[klimman123]

Sorry to say but there is no "policy" for a CSA to occupy the jumpseat at AC. When I was bumped by one I was a little confused. Thanks for the clearing it up for me.

[TrailerParkBoy]

I would love to see the day, a Jazz Pilot gets the jump before an AC CSA! That would raise the bar to the days when pilots from different airlines would say hi or nod as they pass each other. These days eye contact is a stretch!

[rudder]

That's too bad that you COM has to spell it out for you. I was always under the impression that the jumpseat belonged to the Captian, and out of simple professional respect, absent of any other personal factors, the priority was given to other Pilots over other eligible flight crew.
And yet again the 'Professional' bar moves lower. Maybe we should all start wearing blue collared shirts instead of the white ones.

As per the AC COM (or its equivalent), an AC FA gets the jumpseat on an AC aircraft prior to a Jazz pilot. Is that also reflective of an absence of professional respect by your definition?

The fact that AC and Jazz pilots are even permitted access to each others flight decks is a minor miracle considering the restrictive changes in access that flowed out of 9/11 (but have been loosened since).

I suspect that we all would write different priority lists if it was up to us. But it is not. In the meanwhile, pilots who fly between native reserves get the opportunity to travel across North America and around the world on their time off paying less for the 'jumpseat pass' than the guys up front would pay if they were travelling on their own time and on their own airline. Bizarre? Absolutely.

[Chilly willy]

I would love to see the day, a Jazz Pilot gets the jump before an AC CSA! That would raise the bar to the days when pilots from different airlines would say hi or nod as they pass each other. These days eye contact is a stretch!

That would be everyday. AC CSA are not permitted the flight deck of a AC plane. You don't have to be from a different airline to get the cold shoulder.

Cheers

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

That's too bad that you COM has to spell it out for you. I was always under the impression that the jumpseat belonged to the Captian, and out of simple professional respect, absent of any other personal factors, the priority was given to other Pilots over other eligible flight crew.
And yet again the 'Professional' bar moves lower. Maybe we should all start wearing blue collared shirts instead of the white ones.

As per the AC COM (or its equivalent), an AC FA gets the jumpseat on an AC aircraft prior to a Jazz pilot. Is that also reflective of an absence of professional respect by your definition?

The fact that AC and Jazz pilots are even permitted access to each others flight decks is a minor miracle considering the restrictive changes in access that flowed out of 9/11 (but have been loosened since).

I suspect that we all would write different priority lists if it was up to us. But it is not. In the meanwhile, pilots who fly between native reserves get the opportunity to travel across North America and around the world on their time off paying less for the 'jumpseat pass' than the guys up front would pay if they were travelling on their own time and on their own airline. Bizarre? Absolutely.

No where in the AC FOM does it mandate priority for the jumpseat. It lists authorized people and suggests that the needs of the company be weighed in the decision making. But the decision as to who occupies the jumpseat, if anyone, remains at the sole descression of the Capt. In my experience 99% of the time the rule of thumb is AC pilots, Jazz Pilots, AC FA's, Jazz FA's. Unless the capt decides to give the seat to someone they know etc. Now I know that in the absence of the crew knowing who is at the top of the bridge waiting to get on, the counter agents have been known to make things up as they go, or often give priority to AC FA's even before other AC pilots. So for anyone looking for the jump seat, try all means possible to get in touch witth the crew. Even if it means waving frantically from the terminal window. I have heard most crews are good at correcting any liberties that the counter agents have taken, and rarely leave with the seat empty on purpose.

As to it being a minor miracle, it's simply in the hands of the company. TC as well as the FAA lifted their restrictions years ago. So maybe it's time to push a little harder to get some of the things back that this profession has lost in the last decade and a half and get more people on at approval list. Hey maybe something as simple as 'Persons known to the Capt.' Gotta start somewhere, and it's a no cost item.

Recripical jumpseat is exactly that. If you disagree with the policies your Union / Company has, then start asking questions as to why. Guaranteed within about 5 mins you can email your jump seat committee rep... Then again, at the end of the day, maybe it's just nice to see us being able to help this profession on the whole.

Easy there Jimmy... I don't think the 'bar' has been lowered at all.
The cockpit jumpseat is controlled by the company, it is afterall their aircraft! A Captain has the right to refuse access to the jumpseat if he/she wishes but does not have the authority to override the priority list as set by the company. The Captain does not 'own' the jumpseat. A Captain (at least at Jazz) can not refuse access to the jumpseat and then offer it to someone else with a lower priority than the person refused.

A Jazz pilot will always get first dibs on a Jazz aircraft. A Jazz CSA beats an AC pilot because he/she is a Jazz employee. Seems perfectly fair that another company employee gets less priority than a company employee.
Its a 2-way street, a Jazz pilot has a lower priority than an AC CSA.

Seems to work just fine.

Plim

Re the first paragraph, see above.

As to the second, ask your buddies if they feel the same about same company priority over others in respect to their recently changed C2 / C4 passes. Two wrongs don't make a right. And yet again, no Jazz pilots do not have a lower priority. Dont want to beat a dead horse, but i just want to kill that myth right now for good.

Cheers
Jimmy

[mbav8r]

Jimmy, you might want to make some inquiries as to the location of the priority list, it does exist and AC FAs are boarded ahead of Jazz pilots on AC flights. Unless they've changed it in the last year, you have exactly the same list as Jazz does. I know because I've been bumped from more than one flight and it's always to AC employees.

[av8ts]

Accordingly to the Jazz priority list D/H pilots get the j/s before commuters but in the past i have denied the D/H and taken a commuter. Easier to get forgiveness than permission.

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

Jimmy, you might want to make some inquiries as to the location of the priority list, it does exist and AC FAs are boarded ahead of Jazz pilots on AC flights. Unless they've changed it in the last year, you have exactly the same list as Jazz does. I know because I've been bumped from more than one flight and it's always to AC employees.

I hope you are not confusing C2/C4 priority with Jump Seat priority. They are two very different policies.

Read my reply above. The AC FOM gives a list of who is authorized "With no priority implied." THERE IS NO COMPANY MANDATED PRIORITY LIST! The Capt. can take whomever he or she likes if they are authorized personnel. But AC counter agents sometimes play silly bugger with the generally accepted rule of Pilots over FA's and have on many occasion given the jump seat to whoever THEY want. They even try and bully POS DH crew with taking the jump seat so that they can put on other pax. We are not forced to take POS DH crew like Jazz is either. 90% of the time the flight crew has no direct input into who the jump seat is given too because of lack of information. Generally on the way down the bridge ~ 35-40 mins before sked they will mention to the agents that the jump seat is available as needed. Some go even further to review their preference for priority with the agents to try and avoid these situations. (AC Pilots, Jazz Pilots, AC FA's, Jazz FA's) Unless someone specifically gets in touch with the operating flight crew, which I strongly recommend you do by any means possible, they generally rely on the discretion of the counter agent to sort out who gets on and who doesn't. Some of them abuse that trust. Don't confuse what actually happens at the gate for what is a non existent company policy.

If you are so convinced that it exists, feel free to PM me with its location. Or i can PM you with the direct quote out of our FOM. Why don't you also go ahead and fill in all the other ~3000 guys / gals at AC who also have no idea of this company mandated priority.

[Fanblade]

There is no JS priority at AC. The FOM clearly states no priority is implied by the list of those eligible.

It is simply Captain's discretion. His office.

From what i have seen. Usually AC pilots first but not always. Usually AC FA's next but often Jazz pilot's will trump them depending on the Captain.

You ask 10 captains you will probably get 10 different views.

We can't take anyone but pilot's or FA's.

[hithere]

I am a Jazz pilot and our COM clearly states those that are eligible to occupy the jumpseat and the priority that Captain must use if he is going to allow anyone in the seat. And the priorities state that a Jazz pilot before a Jazz FA before another non flight crew Jazz employee(ie CSA) before AC pilot before AC FA. We could get in shit if we didn't follow this and the person who got bumped reported it. I had no idea that the AC COM did not include priorities when it listed eligibility. In fact the other night I was trying to commute home on AC. the flight was full and I had requested the jump and when I saw a commuting AC FA go up to the counter requesting the jump, I just turned around and went to the crew room and spent the night on a couch there. I had no idea that the Captain could choose me ahead of her. Is this lack of priority a new thing in the AC COM? I have been commuting for almost 10 years on mainline flights and I generally try to intoduce myself to the operating Capt as he approaches the gate to see if it would be ok if I was in the jump. The response has always been that yes I can have it as long as there is no AC pilots or AC FA looking for it.
Fanblade or Hoffa would you mind PMing me ?

[mbav8r]

Same here, 6 years commuting and even the very last time it happened the agent was about to give me the J/S and asked are you Jazz, then followed up with, sorry AC FA ahead of Jazz pilots. So, I assumed it was because you had the same list as we had. So, it also stands to reason it could have been the agent with her own list. Good to know, thanks for the education.

[JLA]

Hey guys, I'm about to get on with an EIC company out of YWG, commuting from the east part of the country with Jazz. Is the employee ID enough or should I wait for the RAIC to be able to jump with you guys?

Also for the guys in the know, is jumpseating on the YUL-YOW-YWG route on the RJ feasible with respect to the loads you usually have on that run?
Thanks a lot.

[Bajan Pilot]

You need the RAIC.

[JLA]

I'm so confused, a few guys just told me the company ID was enough to carry on jumpseating.
Does the temporary yellow one do the trick, or you have to wait for the red permanent one?

[Canoehead]

Not sure what an 'EIC' company is, but I assume you are referencing utilizing the OAL reciprocal jumpseat agreement?

In that case you do not need a RAIC. You do need company ID, licence/medical and 'any other proof the captain may want to see'. The last item is pretty vague and subjective, but the first two are mandatory.

Some guys get pretty pissed when a reciprocal jumpseater doesn't at least make an attempt to poke their head up front to say Hi and thanks, so it's good to do that. There are some who take the recip program as a 'right'- don't do that. It's the same as being offered the actual jumpseat. Treat it as such!

I'm not in the know about loads on those legs, except that YUL-YOW sectors are often pretty full.

Good luck.