Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#26 Post by Big Pistons Forever » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:46 am

Changes in Latitudes wrote:
Flying Low wrote:
Air Canada has observed how things are done in the States and thought, "What a great idea!"

The only way to stop this is for the bargaining units of each airline (regional and mainline) to get together and agree on a "floor" for WAWCON.

If this does not happen then the regionals and eventually mainline will see the steady decline in their contracts. It truly is as simple as that.

Apparently talks between the regionals in the US have started. Hopefully it won't take as long to have that meaningful conversation up here...
You're 100% on with this one. But do you really see the bargaining groups of each airline agreeing on this "floor" anytime soon? I think the US system is approaching quicker than any of the union groups can keep up with.

It will be interesting to see if the requirement that new hire FO's at the US regionals have to have an ATPL will have any effect on WAWCONs. When they were putting 250 hr, fresh from the puppy mill, starry eyed wannabe's with SJS, into the right seat of a jet they could pay 17 K a year and get lots of applicants. Now they are fishing from a considerably smaller pool it will be interesting to see what will happen. The rumor is that Pinnacle, which current has the crappiest pay and conditions, has almost no one in the holding pool and very few credible resumes on file.

The US regionals will also be subject to new flight duty time limits soon. These new rules will mean an airline will need 5 to 9 % more pilots to fly the same schedule.

Common sense says that there has to be a floor to wages. My gut feeling is that the US regionals are there now and will have to start improving the conditions to get pilots.

It is interesting times !
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tdp19
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#27 Post by tdp19 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:44 pm

I was talking to a republic q400 pilot in BWI the other day and he said they have been cancelling g/s, they cantkeep up with hiring. Some companies are even offering signing bonus's.
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Changes in Latitudes
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#28 Post by Changes in Latitudes » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:41 pm

tdp19 wrote:I was talking to a republic q400 pilot in BWI the other day and he said they have been cancelling g/s, they cantkeep up with hiring. Some companies are even offering signing bonus's.
Diddley squat and a half is still not appealing to the best and the brightest, however.
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#29 Post by Fanblade » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:26 pm

Mr. Howlett. The Labor Relations guy that just dealt with all the AC unions and had the government in his back pocket while doing so. Everyone knows who Vanstone is right?


"Air Canada executive realignment.

MONTREAL, Sept. 18, 2013 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada today announced the appointment of Kevin Howlett, currently Senior Vice President, Employee Relations, to the new position of Senior Vice President, Regional Markets with overall responsibility for the strategic direction of Air Canada's regional operations and the relationship with current and future regional carriers operating on its behalf. 

"Over the past two years Air Canada has made significant changes to its regional airline strategy including embarking on a carrier diversification program and a re-branding of all regional partners as Air Canada Express. Kevin's mandate will include a focus on further reducing the cost of Air Canada's regional lift as well as strengthening Air Canada's presence in regional communities."

In his new role, based in Vancouver, British Columbia, Kevin will also work in association with Derek Vanstone, Vice President, Corporate Strategy, Industry & Government Affairs, to strengthen regional business and community relationships.Air Canada Announces Executive Realignment"

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1227181 ... ealignment

Harper’s deputy chief of staff, Derek Vanstone, named as VP of government affairs at Air Canada. Airline says senior aide will become vice-president for corporate strategy and government relations.

http://www.thestar.com/business/2012/07 ... fairs.html



Air Georgian and Regional 1 Airlines Sign MOU to Merge

http://centreforaviation.com/members/di ... erg-128224

"Upon closing, the combined operations will utilize Beechcraft 1900D, de Havilland DHC 8 100, DHC 8 300 and CRJ 100/200 aircraft types, with the ability to quickly add additional larger gauge aircraft types with the long term goal of positioning the brands as major players in the 18-76 seat turbo-prop and jet market. "
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mbav8r
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#30 Post by mbav8r » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:14 am

What are you trying to say Fanblade? Are you sitting in a dark room rubbing your hands together with an evil grin on your face, what are you saying?
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ikarus
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#31 Post by ikarus » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:25 am

I don't think so...at least I don't think he is, he didn't turn his laptop camera "on" so that we can face talk:)

He's just pointing to some very interesting/concerning news, that all Jazz (Chorus) executives should concerned as well. P re-emptive action is needed, because in this business if you sit back and idle for too long, you are bound to be run over.
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#32 Post by Fanblade » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:55 am

No. However I understand the sensitivity to it. I didn't say much for that very reason.

Hopefully, and I say this respectfully, you guys handle this challenge better than ACPA.
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#33 Post by mbav8r » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:18 am

I agree, there is a huge threat from this merger and I apologize for perhaps taking it the wrong way but by not saying much, it felt more like rubbing our noses in it, than a warning. Given the history between the groups, I'm sure you understand this.
This is the part that struck the strongest chord with me, we are closing in on negotiations and I have no doubt this is not a coincidence. There is a clause in the CPA regarding a work stoppage. I believe if it last three days, Air Canada can essentially rip up the CPA. Seems he(CR) has a plan to deal with the 98% of us from last time!
This strategic merger will allow the new combined entity to position itself as a unique, fully integrated airline leveraging the technical, geographical and asset strengths of Avmax and the professional management and strong operational background of Air Georgian. Air Georgian and Regional 1 Airlines will benefit from having access to the world's largest private fleet of Dash 8 and CRJ series aircraft, over $100 million in spare parts and domestic maintenance bases in Halifax, Montreal, Kingston, Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver. International operations will be supported through Avmax maintenance bases in Great Falls, Montana, Jacksonville, Florida, Nairobi, Kenya and N'djamena, Chad in Africa.
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rudder
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#34 Post by rudder » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:38 pm

Fanblade wrote:No. However I understand the sensitivity to it. I didn't say much for that very reason.

Hopefully, and I say this respectfully, you guys handle this challenge better than ACPA.
The answer is not to try to "handle the challenge" in isolation.

The strategy that will best serve both parties (ALPA/ACPA) is to work together to try to fashion better outcomes for their constituents. And better outcomes would by necessity be ones that will produce incremental benefits for the corporation as well that would not otherwise be available absent pilot participation.

This will however require very enlightened and proactive leadership.
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Rumors
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#35 Post by Rumors » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:01 pm

rudder wrote:
Fanblade wrote:No. However I understand the sensitivity to it. I didn't say much for that very reason.

Hopefully, and I say this respectfully, you guys handle this challenge better than ACPA.
The answer is not to try to "handle the challenge" in isolation.

The strategy that will best serve both parties (ALPA/ACPA) is to work together to try to fashion better outcomes for their constituents. And better outcomes would by necessity be ones that will produce incremental benefits for the corporation as well that would not otherwise be available absent pilot participation.

This will however require very enlightened and proactive leadership.
I don't think ACPA leadership cares about this. Its regional lift. There is scope protection for Air Canada Pilots.

Wouldn't it make more sense for ALPA and Sky Pilots to get together to handle this threat?
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#36 Post by Rumors » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:52 pm

milehighclub wrote:Are you for real ? New kid in aviation town ? Go back to school and learn a thing or two about the subject before trying to get into something you have no clue about :smt015
So you disagree?

Please enlighten me.
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rudder
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#37 Post by rudder » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:59 pm

Rumors wrote:
I don't think ACPA leadership cares about this. Its regional lift. There is scope protection for Air Canada Pilots.

Wouldn't it make more sense for ALPA and Sky Pilots to get together to handle this threat?
Wrong. SKY is the threat to both parties. It isn't a business but rather a tool being used to set new artificial low compensation metrics for the EMB mainline and regional 75 seat aircraft. These metrics will be used against ACPA and ALPA in any and all processes to continue the downward spiral of <100 seat pay for everybody on the red team.

Right now the corporate agenda is to beat up ACPA - then beat up ALPA - and then return to beat up ACPA - and to continue this pattern ad infinitum. There will be no winner in the ACPA nor ALPA camps until they start to act together.

ACPA and ALPA have the critical mass and collective impact on the bottom line of the AC income statement through scope ownership to craft an operational solution that is worth far more than AC can achieve independently just by tinkering with SKY. The only question is whether ACPA and ALPA can see this and are willing to act in a collusive and pragmatic fashion to first get the corporations attention and then to participate in the construction of a meaningful alternative to what appears to be the inevitable next chapter.
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#38 Post by tdp19 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:20 pm

Very well put!
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#39 Post by Rumors » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:30 am

Wasn't it the ACPA leadership that allowed sky Regional to start up in the first place in order to save air Canada money in their regional ops side if things so they could afford to expand their international ops?
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#40 Post by razorblade » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:48 am

rudder wrote:
Rumors wrote:
I don't think ACPA leadership cares about this. Its regional lift. There is scope protection for Air Canada Pilots.

Wouldn't it make more sense for ALPA and Sky Pilots to get together to handle this threat?
Wrong. SKY is the threat to both parties. It isn't a business but rather a tool being used to set new artificial low compensation metrics for the EMB mainline and regional 75 seat aircraft. These metrics will be used against ACPA and ALPA in any and all processes to continue the downward spiral of <100 seat pay for everybody on the red team.

Right now the corporate agenda is to beat up ACPA - then beat up ALPA - and then return to beat up ACPA - and to continue this pattern ad infinitum. There will be no winner in the ACPA nor ALPA camps until they start to act together.

ACPA and ALPA have the critical mass and collective impact on the bottom line of the AC income statement through scope ownership to craft an operational solution that is worth far more than AC can achieve independently just by tinkering with SKY. The only question is whether ACPA and ALPA can see this and are willing to act in a collusive and pragmatic fashion to first get the corporations attention and then to participate in the construction of a meaningful alternative to what appears to be the inevitable next chapter.
Well said!
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#41 Post by Dh8Classic » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:26 am

Just shows how wise it would have been to have taken that BOTL seniority thing that ACPA offered a few years back.
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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#42 Post by flyer 1492 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:46 am

Dh8Classic wrote:Just shows how wise it would have been to have taken that BOTL seniority thing that ACPA offered a few years back.

There was one factor(law suit) that killed the deal. There was no chance of the deal going thru.


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Re: Chorus to Purchase Sky Regional

#43 Post by prop2jet » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:12 am

Rumors wrote:Wasn't it the ACPA leadership that allowed sky Regional to start up in the first place in order to save air Canada money in their regional ops side if things so they could afford to expand their international ops?
I believe in part yes, however it was a provision introduced by the MEC of the day in a TA that was never ratified by the membership who then ousted the MEC. The provision remained in the agreement that was forced down by the feds.
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