Georgian RJ's

Discuss topics relating to Jazz Aviation LP.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, Sulako, North Shore

Message
Author
tdp19
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:29 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#76 Post by tdp19 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:22 pm

Localizer wrote:Sorry, I don't rely on info off a public board delivered by posters with a combined total of 25 post. Amazing how may people with 3 - 8 post are on here.

With that said, I'll agree with other posters on the lack of synergy amongst pilots. I continue to urge everyone to join the CPPC, Black Cat, your correct they don't have a direct interest in wawcon but they do want to control licensing and standard which directly relates to supply and demand and that directly relates to wawcon. Have a little faith and join for all our collective sakes.

Cheers.
As i stated earlier in this thread, i wanted to join til i saw the $60 fee. I see that as essentially throwing that money right out the window unless all pilots unite and join.. I think more ppl will join if there was no fee initially, then again i don't know what websites cost, ppls time etc... What is that money going towards?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Krimson
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 585
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:54 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#77 Post by Krimson » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:22 pm

tdp19 wrote:What is that money going towards?
-To maintain this website and associated databases
-To cover the cost of meetings of the Board of Directors or any special committees the College may develop
-To cover the expenses of any members conducting business on behalf of the College
-Accounting and legal fees that may arise in the course of the College's business
-To pay any outside consultants or contractors that are completing work on behalf of the College
-Other items that the general membership agrees the College should pursue

The College's finances are open and transparent. Quarterly reports will be available in the "Members Only" portion of this site.

All board members are volunteers. No salaries shall be paid and only reasonable expenses shall be reimbursed.


--From the website
---------- ADS -----------
  

DBC
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:29 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#78 Post by DBC » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:24 am

tdp19 wrote:
Localizer wrote:Sorry, I don't rely on info off a public board delivered by posters with a combined total of 25 post. Amazing how may people with 3 - 8 post are on here.

With that said, I'll agree with other posters on the lack of synergy amongst pilots. I continue to urge everyone to join the CPPC, Black Cat, your correct they don't have a direct interest in wawcon but they do want to control licensing and standard which directly relates to supply and demand and that directly relates to wawcon. Have a little faith and join for all our collective sakes.

Cheers.
As i stated earlier in this thread, i wanted to join til i saw the $60 fee. I see that as essentially throwing that money right out the window unless all pilots unite and join.. I think more ppl will join if there was no fee initially, then again i don't know what websites cost, ppls time etc... What is that money going towards?
60$ is like a third of a bad bar tab, cmon man :|
---------- ADS -----------
  

tdp19
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:29 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#79 Post by tdp19 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:03 am

DBC wrote:
tdp19 wrote:
Localizer wrote:Sorry, I don't rely on info off a public board delivered by posters with a combined total of 25 post. Amazing how may people with 3 - 8 post are on here.

With that said, I'll agree with other posters on the lack of synergy amongst pilots. I continue to urge everyone to join the CPPC, Black Cat, your correct they don't have a direct interest in wawcon but they do want to control licensing and standard which directly relates to supply and demand and that directly relates to wawcon. Have a little faith and join for all our collective sakes.

Cheers.
As i stated earlier in this thread, i wanted to join til i saw the $60 fee. I see that as essentially throwing that money right out the window unless all pilots unite and join.. I think more ppl will join if there was no fee initially, then again i don't know what websites cost, ppls time etc... What is that money going towards?
60$ is like a third of a bad bar tab, cmon man :|
I do agree $60 is nothing, however in paying 2600 in union fee's now and to be honest i font see the college helping because not all pilots will join making it ineffective....
---------- ADS -----------
  

mbav8r
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Georgian RJ's

#80 Post by mbav8r » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:36 am

That's your prerogative, however that is exactly why it will fail if it's going to. If you join and tell others to join eventually it will reach the critical mass needed for it to be effective. I'm in for 120. 00 so far and have committed to 5 years minimum to see something, anything positive and then I'll go from there. I also pay the same dues you pay and I wish I had some quote to make you change your mind about this.
How about Edmund Burke, The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Replace evil with CEOs and well I hope you get my point.
Also, I hear this a lot, that the college has no intention on setting wages, to that I always say, the college will take the direction the members decide it should take.
---------- ADS -----------
  

tdp19
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:29 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#81 Post by tdp19 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:45 am

mbav8r wrote:That's your prerogative, however that is exactly why it will fail if it's going to. If you join and tell others to join eventually it will reach the critical mass needed for it to be effective. I'm in for 120. 00 so far and have committed to 5 years minimum to see something, anything positive and then I'll go from there. I also pay the same dues you pay and I wish I had some quote to make you change your mind about this.
How about Edmund Burke, The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Replace evil with CEOs and well I hope you get my point.
Also, I hear this a lot, that the college has no intention on setting wages, to that I always say, the college will take the direction the members decide it should take.
How many members thus far have joined? Does anyone know how many cpl/atpl pilots there are in canada?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Krimson
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 585
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:54 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#82 Post by Krimson » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:43 am

tdp19 wrote:How many members thus far have joined? Does anyone know how many cpl/atpl pilots there are in canada?
983 pilots in CPPC as of Oct 31, 2013

--From the website



TC publishes number of licenses per quarter as well.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Localizer
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1210
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:18 pm
Location: CYYZ

Re: Georgian RJ's

#83 Post by Localizer » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:08 am

$60???? You cheap ass pilot, I bet you replace hotel light bulbs with burnt out ones from home. Give us all a break and join. The $60 goes towards the IT and other requirements to get this bird off the ground. Wow.
---------- ADS -----------
  

tdp19
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:29 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#84 Post by tdp19 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:16 am

Localizer wrote:$60???? You cheap ass pilot, I bet you replace hotel light bulbs with burnt out ones from home. Give us all a break and join. The $60 goes towards the IT and other requirements to get this bird off the ground. Wow.
Lol, nope dont do that at hotels. Im not cheap at all, im just realistic. I would rather use that money for beers, dont see it as happenning. Hope im wrong
---------- ADS -----------
  

indieadventurer
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:59 am

Re: Georgian RJ's

#85 Post by indieadventurer » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:24 am

tdp19 wrote:
Localizer wrote:$60???? You cheap ass pilot, I bet you replace hotel light bulbs with burnt out ones from home. Give us all a break and join. The $60 goes towards the IT and other requirements to get this bird off the ground. Wow.
Lol, nope dont do that at hotels. Im not cheap at all, im just realistic. I would rather use that money for beers, dont see it as happenning. Hope im wrong
:smt075
---------- ADS -----------
  

BTyyj
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:11 pm
Location: CYYJ

Re: Georgian RJ's

#86 Post by BTyyj » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:07 pm

tdp19, if I may ask, what, in your opinion, is the root cause of this supposed degradation of work conditions within this industry?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by BTyyj on Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm glad I'm not judgmental like all you smug, superficial idiots

tdp19
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:29 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#87 Post by tdp19 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:15 pm

BTyyj wrote:tdp19, if I may ask, what, in your opinion, is the route cause of this supposed degradation of work conditions within this industry?
The simple fact that there has always been people willing to work for next to nothing just to fly a bigger, faster airplane. It's nothing new, just read through some of these forums, guys are justifying flying for wages that keep getting lower and lower. Last year it was air canada wages that were in the spotlight for being low, then turned to skyregionàl, then encore, now ggn, steadily declining and their still managing to fill the cockpit on those wages, and all these companies are aware of it and feed off it.
---------- ADS -----------
  

indieadventurer
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:59 am

Re: Georgian RJ's

#88 Post by indieadventurer » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:46 pm

tdp19 wrote:
BTyyj wrote:tdp19, if I may ask, what, in your opinion, is the route cause of this supposed degradation of work conditions within this industry?
The simple fact that there has always been people willing to work for next to nothing just to fly a bigger, faster airplane. It's nothing new, just read through some of these forums, guys are justifying flying for wages that keep getting lower and lower. Last year it was air canada wages that were in the spotlight for being low, then turned to skyregionàl, then encore, now ggn, steadily declining and their still managing to fill the cockpit on those wages, and all these companies are aware of it and feed off it.
Yeah, it's a supply and demand problem. But that is one the college's goals, to eventually control licencing and hence control the supply.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Stinky
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:51 am

Re: Georgian RJ's

#89 Post by Stinky » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:06 pm

Didn't Transport say that they had no intention of giving up the licensing authorityand that it was n't even on the table? Do any other countries operate this way?
---------- ADS -----------
  

truedude
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:30 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#90 Post by truedude » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:12 pm

Stinky wrote:Didn't Transport say that they had no intention of giving up the licensing authorityand that it was n't even on the table? Do any other countries operate this way?
They were prepared to give it up once before... If an entity was presented that could take over, and it saved the government money, I suspect they would relinquish control.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Localizer
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1210
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:18 pm
Location: CYYZ

Re: Georgian RJ's

#91 Post by Localizer » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:00 am

Like all things this boils down to money, and I'd say with Steven Harper on the attack toward civil servants, this is prime time to go after licensing and standards. The problem, pilots who think a $60.00 membership, that could potentially save our industry and livelihoods, is too much money. I hope those beers taste just as sweet in the unemployment line.

People, get on board and help make positive change. Don't sit back and expect your comrades to do this for you, we need everyone to stand up.

Cheers.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Black Cat
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:51 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#92 Post by Black Cat » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:25 pm

truedude wrote:
Stinky wrote:Didn't Transport say that they had no intention of giving up the licensing authorityand that it was n't even on the table? Do any other countries operate this way?
They were prepared to give it up once before... If an entity was presented that could take over, and it saved the government money, I suspect they would relinquish control.

Save the government money and the cost of providing that service falls on who, The COP ie the pilots? Have you guys thought this through?

Lawyers, accountants, secretaries, examiners, office staff, etc x 10 and all in both official languages! WHAT ARE THE PROJECTED COSTS? Who is going to pay for this pipe dream? The 22k encore FO? The 60k Georgian jet kid? The jazz pilot on EI? We are talking about MILLIONS of dollars to run this show guys, its not going to be 60 dollars less for the beer fund for long Localizer. I've asked in person and on this forum on no one from the COPs has been able to provide an answer. How much and from who?


Regarding the COP's current stance on wage equality, if I understand correctly from some of the previous posts it goes something like this; The COP's going to gain control of licence and make it harder to get a CPL, and thus supply dwindles and pilots wages go up due to demand. Brilliant! but I'm guessing a class action lawsuit on behalf of all the flying schools in Canada will be the COP's first legal hurdle. See loss of income. Or the COPs take away or suspend a pilots licence. Hello, 1-800-LGL-TEAM, it the COP here, we have a pilot challenging our ruling and is suing us for loss of income. Or the COPs suspend a chief pilot and a company cannot operate, ala keystone air And the lawsuit against transport Canada a few years ago. See where I'm going? It's called the opposite direction and I'm running from the COPs if there is no plan on the fiscal front.

The answer to our pilot woes is not becoming a red tape laden organization burdened with staff and costs that the pilot pool picks up...unless the COP dues get so high that some need to leave the profession thus creating our own shortage...hmmmm


Please COP, Focus on the areas that unites us ALL and stop making me say I'm happy with transport Canada.
---------- ADS -----------
  

prop2jet
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 529
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:50 am

Re: Georgian RJ's

#93 Post by prop2jet » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:55 pm

If supply is cut short you can expect the Feds will allow the doors open to more foreign pilots. Whatever plan the COPP has would have to comply with ICAO. So first question: Is there any ICAO member state that has delegated the control of licencing to a non government controlled agency? Are there provisions within ICAO conventions that allow for this?
---------- ADS -----------
  

std by
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:24 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#94 Post by std by » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:09 pm

Localizer wrote:Sorry, I don't rely on info off a public board delivered by posters with a combined total of 25 post. Amazing how may people with 3 - 8 post are on here.

With that said, I'll agree with other posters on the lack of synergy amongst pilots. I continue to urge everyone to join the CPPC, Black Cat, your correct they don't have a direct interest in wawcon but they do want to control licensing and standard which directly relates to supply and demand and that directly relates to wawcon. Have a little faith and join for all our collective sakes.

Cheers.

Hey localizer, I have paid up my 60.00 to the CPPC, been working in the industry for 33 years, probably met you somewhere out there. But because I don't blather on line and only have what 8 posts my opinion doesn't count. It is that head up ones a$$ that will cause the CPPC to fail. Time to open the mind and listen to more than what you want to hear. Take care out there.
---------- ADS -----------
  

ajet32
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:57 pm
Location: YYC

Re: Georgian RJ's

#95 Post by ajet32 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:01 am

The one thing that concerns me about the college is their desire to be involved in licensing. I have 2 objections, one; who or what gives the group the right to decide who gets a licence. The entry standards we have now seem adequate and the product in most cases is of a reasonable standard.
The second and more important is , Canada is an ICAO sanctioned licensing authority. The licence we have is well recognized overseas. How can the college continue if they are not ICAO sanctioned and as of now all licensing authorities are government entities not "private" or pseudo government groups.
This problem reared its ugly head when the CBAA was issuing POC's for private operators. The europeans for one really objected to a non government group being in a position to issue documents. I have no more insider information than anyone else but if you follow business aviation you know that the POC program is being administered by Transport Canada again and new regulations will be issued soon.
---------- ADS -----------
  

CellPh2
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:09 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#96 Post by CellPh2 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:58 am

I am sure flight schools would love this idea....

And who gets the yay or nay when it comes to being granted a "pass" for being eligible to learn how to fly if regulated by the college?

I bet education will play a big part. The problem here is being book smart is a completely different skill set from becoming a well rounded pilot. I've flown with guys who never finished high school. Great hands and feet, decision making, and just wanted to do their thing flying floats.

There are some Seneca grads I wouldn't even trust to drive my car. And some of them are my friends.


I think we need to address the parents of future pilots, somehow. Not all parents, just the ones who coddle their kids with money, pu$$ify, rot, and exploit the industry with blank cheques. These babied little wimps that I see come into aviation have no right being here.

Parents need to know that by funding their young in this profession, it will do no good for him/her later on in life. I bet if most of these kids had to work for their licenses, or live off of their own 30K wage in a major centre, supply might go down.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Black Cat
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:51 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#97 Post by Black Cat » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:36 pm

From the COP site

Again, looks like ZERO interest from the COP on the topic wages?

http://www.collegeofpilots.ca/faq/



IS THIS A UNION?

No. The College will oversee, maintain and promote the calibre of professional pilots in Canada. The College has no interest to represent pilots in labour disputes or industrial affairs, set pay rates or develop a national seniority list. The College does intend to develop relationships and collaborate with unions, government, professional associations, industry and other stakeholder groups related to aviation to act as a vehicle to facilitate professionalism and best practices industry wide.


WHY SHOULD I JOIN?

Help your profession to build something that would be a first in the world- an organization where professional pilots oversee , maintain and promote the calibre of themselves through peer-based review, excellence in training techniques, mentoring and support.


HOW DOES THE COLLEGE FIT WITH TRANSPORT CANADA AND ICAO?

Being a professional pilot is much different than other professions as we can practice our work in multiple jurisdictions and countries on a single flight. The College has no interest in issuing licences or developing regulations, and consequently views Transport Canada and ICAO as key partners. The College does however aspire to maintain the standards and calibre of professional pilots on behalf of, or in conjunction with, Transport Canada. This is indeed a complex endeavour and many details remain to be finalized.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Localizer
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1210
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:18 pm
Location: CYYZ

Re: Georgian RJ's

#98 Post by Localizer » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:32 am

Personally, I'm not a fan of bitching about something, and not doing anything about it. Atleast the COP is an avenue for doing something about it, instead of sitting around this forum bitching about why we can't or shouldn't ...

Black Cat .. you have an issue of where the money will come from? I'll assume your a member of CALPA, ALPA, ACPA, or the CAW (Unifor). If not, the point stands the same. These are the unions that represent us (or most of us) .. how many millions of OUR money has been spent on stupid lawsuits, most of which have been against one another??!!! Wouldn't a federally legislated body overseeing our industry put that money to better use? Wouldn't those millions be better spent on you, then to fight the guy standing next to you? Am I crazy here?

Std By .. I can't honestly rationalize your post .. I'm suppose to take an anonymous poster on a public web-board with 8 post at face value? You can tell me you have 33 yrs in the industry .. or anything else for that matter and I wouldn't know the truth. Atleast the posters with a few hundred post have been here for a period of time and contributed enough that you know they have a stake in the industry. Now .. as a guy with 33 yrs in this business, I would think you, out of all people would be leading the charge considering you know how good this business was, and maybe you'd want to save it. Your opinion counts.

Ajet32 .. You don't have a right to get a license .. you have the privilege to get one and I don't think Joe Public who wants to obtain his PPL has to worry that he/she will be required to have an MBA.

As stated by many people .. if you have questions or concerns you should email the COP directly. If they don't get back to you right away, please remember they have jobs and families just like the rest of us. Be patient.
---------- ADS -----------
  

ajet32
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:57 pm
Location: YYC

Re: Georgian RJ's

#99 Post by ajet32 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:00 am

Localizer:
I may not have the right to have a licence. Where do you get that, I have passed all the required tests; written and practical. I have more than the required education and have continued to pass the required tests written and practical for 30 years. My question is who gives some group the right to over rule the legislated laws of the land regarding aviation. Aeronautics Act and Canadian Aviation regulations. Regulating supply won't help the situation faced by pilots in Canada today.

I have worked overseas where these things are regulated by similar groups within the government and you get a less than ideal product. If they don't want to work towards better Terms & Conditions I am not really sure what the purpose of the College is. The supposed race to the bottom seems to be the biggest concern of members of this board. The fact that pilots in North America are treated little better than bus drivers and in many cases paid less should be the biggest concern. When a person has to leave the country to make a good living what does that say about the situation.

If the College wants the support of all the pilots in the country they need to use the money they received from the two major airlines for IT and tell the rest of us what they are doing. Transparency will remove the feeling that it is a fraternity type or organization where only special folks can join.

Anyway this thread hijack should probably be moved into one about the College and not Air Georgian CRJ's. Mods do so at your convenience,
---------- ADS -----------
  

rudder
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Georgian RJ's

#100 Post by rudder » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:19 am

ajet32 wrote:
Anyway this thread hijack should probably be moved into one about the College and not Air Georgian CRJ's. Mods do so at your convenience,
Thank you!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Jazz Aviation LP - Air Canada Express”