We already gave at the office. Now it's your turn. Blunt yes. But if you don't see it? Your not listening to what is coming out of the head shed.
Oh we see it. The folks at the regional level have been giving for the last couple decades and our last agreement brought back SOME of what has been lost. I severely doubt anyone at Jazz would accept any form of concessions unless a clear and guarantied long term plan was in place for career stability. Even THAT would be a long shot. Many of us accept the fact that the next contract will have little more than cost if living increases as raises and will probably include improvements in efficiency. Pay cuts I strongly believe are off the table without getting something big in return and again, that's a stretch.
There are grumblings of pension changes and a "B" scale to attempt to match Encore, Sky Regional and Georgian wages. Will we have a choice? Again, we'll see what 2015 holds.
ACPA should be careful what it wishes for though because if the floor below you goes down, so do you.
Take a very close look at the Eagle and Comair situation. Lowering pay scales for new employees was not enough because turn over didn't allow the company to utilize those lower scales. Once Delta started shrinking the CPA with Comair, costs rose higher and solidified their fate. AMR came up with a flow through solution for this, which we all know the Eagle pilots said no to. The latest from Envoy (formerly Eagle) is a 47% reduction. If that actually takes place? They are done.
The time for corrective action is at the peak. Not on the down wind.
What Chorus needs, even above a lower pay scale, is accelerated employee turnover. One without the other will not produce results. AC holds the keys to hiring at mainline and wants a cost reduction at Chorus.
I'm suggesting you put the two together. This current non retirement bubble may work in your favour.
This is something that could be achievable. Trying to go back to the good ole days is not.
Fanblade wrote:
What route is Rouge operating that isn't primarily leisure?
Well there was that story on an angry passenger who got 'Rouged' recently on a flight YVR-LAX. I think they'll keep doing sneaky substitutions slowly like that just to get people used to it...
Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Anchorage, Phoenix, and San Diego where mainline routes .. now Rouge routes. It looks to me CR is playing silly bugger with the scope of the Rouge operation at the cost of mainline jobs, those are not leisure sun destinations served by the likes of Sunwing and Transat.
"Share the pain" .. What pain is Air Canada feeling these days? The stock is up 300%, the pension deficit evaporated overnight (or after the arbitrated settlement .. conveniently), they have a low cost leisure division, 2 bottom of the barrel regional feeders to keep nipping at the toes of anyone with better wawcon .. So again, what pain??
Localizer wrote:"Share the pain" .. What pain is Air Canada feeling these days? The stock is up 300%, the pension deficit evaporated overnight (or after the arbitrated settlement .. conveniently), they have a low cost leisure division, 2 bottom of the barrel regional feeders to keep nipping at the toes of anyone with better wawcon .. So again, what pain??
It's not quite all wine and roses just yet. This is an operation that reported a Q1 net loss of $341 million a few hours ago, up from a $260 million net loss in the quarter last year. Granted, lots of encouraging trends in CASM, access to capital, and fleet refresh, but it remains a high-risk, highly-leveraged, low-return business.
I agree that lightening up the upper echelons of the pay scale would help and that's what a flow though would do BUT without holding some kind of pay or seniority carry over why would a captain at Jazz leave for an FO position at AC be it mainline or Rouge? Getting FOs to leave while replacing retiring captains with more junior FOs would help also and would not require much negotiating for flow through as an FO going BOTL is not as painful as a Captain doing it.
Another possible concession being feared is not holding years of service after an upgrade for pay purposes. 10 year FO going down to 1st year Captain pay. OUCH.
All these would lower costs BUT erode some of the hard fought gains we have made. I know the old days are long gone but do we have to go back to the Stone Age?
teacher wrote:Another possible concession being feared is not holding years of service after an upgrade for pay purposes. 10 year FO going down to 1st year Captain pay. OUCH.
ouch it is! That would be brutal if ALPA gave in to that idea....imagine the magnitude of pissed of senior F/Os.....man, first you end up waiting up to 10 years to get a left seat, then you get 1st year pay.
Just remember guys, gaining back things in the contract is 10 times harder then giving it up..
Just listened to the conference calls,
EMB190 is staying with Mainline, larger adjusted loss this quarter over the same last year at AC.
Chorus said they are expecting to pay out 15 million in VSP money this year compared to last years 10 million in an effort to become more cost competitive.
The way to get more cost competitive is to stop flying a fleet largely populated by antiques from the 80's and 90's. What Jazz is doing is akin to AC still flying gas guzzling DC-9's and 727's arguing that they have low ownership costs (paid for) but high operating costs (fuel consumption).
The era of the 50 seater is fast coming to a close. Time to get on with it. In 10 years most of the current Jazz fleet will be parked in the desert somewhere.
JoeyBarton wrote:But what's the solution? Flying q4's is smaller markets is hardly a good option...Newer ATR's ?
The domestic and transborder marketplace is changing. Low gauge/high frequency will give way to higher gauge/lower frequency. This results in lower CASM. It is already happening and that trend will continue.
I realize AC reported a loss, but most of that loss is due to currency exchange (strength of the American dollar) then operation, AC has more than enough tools that make the "operation" profitable.
I was trying to (unsuccessfully) find the article about airline executives .. it was interesting because AC has more executives than AMR, United, and US Airways combined with a fleet 1/3 the size. I have an idea where more savings could be found, don't you?
Its amazing how private companies today continue to loss money, and how employees are expected "donate" to help raise the bottom line to keep their employment while executive compensation continues to sky rocket at an astounding rate.
The public sector gravy train seems to have plenty of steam! 15% pay increase, work less hours!
Interesting topic, but when do you guys think that we will see the future shape of Jazz, by the end of this Summer ? A friend of mine told me that there could be no bid again this upcoming August. Any thoughts on that ?
Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Anchorage, Phoenix, and San Diego where mainline routes .. now Rouge routes. It looks to me CR is playing silly bugger with the scope of the Rouge operation at the cost of mainline jobs, those are not leisure sun destinations served by the likes of Sunwing and Transat.
You forgot WJ. The rouge 319 operation was intended to mainly compete with them. All those destinations are mostly leisure out of YYC and YVR. ANC is seasonal cruise ship. LAX is Disney. Lots of kids sporting mouse ears on the return flights. Vegas is obvious. PHX is the cold winter escape. Essentially Arizona and California are the West coasts Florida.
Localizer wrote:“Share the pain" .. What pain is Air Canada feeling these days? The stock is up 300%, the pension deficit evaporated overnight (or after the arbitrated settlement .. conveniently), they have a low cost leisure division, 2 bottom of the barrel regional feeders to keep nipping at the toes of anyone with better wawcon .. So again, what pain??
Anyone who has been paying attention knows what's coming from the head shed. Get cost competitive or else they will find someone else.
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Last edited by Fanblade on Thu May 15, 2014 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This Embraer announcement is huge news for Jazz, just what my high level connections were telling me. ACPA should open up the scope in the next couple of weeks in exchange for some other goodies. Jazz needs to decide on the new contract, 10% wage cut across the board for the E190's and the classic Dash's go to a new low cost. Say no and the Embraers go to Sky and the CPA gets slaughtered in 2020.
Did I nail it?
Stinky wrote:This Embraer announcement is huge news for Jazz, just what my high level connections were telling me. ACPA should open up the scope in the next couple of weeks in exchange for some other goodies. Jazz needs to decide on the new contract, 10% wage cut across the board for the E190's and the classic Dash's go to a new low cost. Say no and the Embraers go to Sky and the CPA gets slaughtered in 2020.
Did I nail it?
These aircraft are not being replaced with anything. How many job losses do you think ACPA would be willing to entertain?
Again. I have asked. I have been reassured AC has no intention of breaking the 76 seat benchmark.
Your high level intel doesn't appear to be coming from the holder of the keys. My guess is it is coming from someone hoping to sway the holder of the keys.
