Who knows, but you can say the same for Encore, Rouge, Sky etc......my personal view that it will, not quite in the same shape/capacity, but it will existleftoftrack wrote: Is Jazz going to be around in 8 Years?
2014 payrates
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Re: 2014 payrates
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Re: 2014 payrates
whos going to sit on reserve for 3 years to find out that they finally can hold a block knowing that you only have 5 years left till the company is tits up and your starting at the bottom of the sky regional listMig29 wrote:Who knows, but you can say the same for Encore, Rouge, Sky etc......my personal view that it will, not quite in the same shape/capacity, but it will existleftoftrack wrote: Is Jazz going to be around in 8 Years?
Re: 2014 payrates
Seriously people ... Who seriously thinks a company operating over 800 flights a day with 1500 pilots can be replaced in 5 years? If the SKR and GGN experiments don't prove my point lets also look at the issue of a pilot shortage .. (Experienced pilot shortage) .. There are many more (financial) reasons I could state, but reality is these are tactics to get better pricing from Chorus in my opinion.
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Re: 2014 payrates
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Last edited by ImprovedClimb on Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2014 payrates
The only way that SKY and GGN could ever hope to meaningfully replace Jazz is to have hundreds of Jazz pilots quit Jazz to go to these bottom feeder outfits.
Time will tell.
Time will tell.
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Re: 2014 payrates
envoy is about half the size it was 6 months ago. Air Canada's issue isn't that it would be to hard to replace JAZZ. Their issue is they cant do it fast enough do to the contracts signedLocalizer wrote:Seriously people ... Who seriously thinks a company operating over 800 flights a day with 1500 pilots can be replaced in 5 years? If the SKR and GGN experiments don't prove my point lets also look at the issue of a pilot shortage .. (Experienced pilot shortage) .. There are many more (financial) reasons I could state, but reality is these are tactics to get better pricing from Chorus in my opinion.
Re: 2014 payrates
Since emerging from CCAA in 2004, Jazz has been replaced to the tune of............5 aircraft (GGN CRJ). And that 'experiment' has thus far been an unmitigated disaster from an operational perspective.leftoftrack wrote:
envoy is about half the size it was 6 months ago. Air Canada's issue isn't that it would be to hard to replace JAZZ. Their issue is they cant do it fast enough do to the contracts signed
Do you think that finding DEC's is that easy? Just ask Encore/SKY/GGN. Unless current Jazz pilots line up to fill these positions the reality is that there are nowhere enough pilots in Canada to fill the spots.
Envoy/Comair analogies are clearly apples and oranges. Jazz may get smaller, but it will happen slowly and even then the 'replacement' airline will be challenged to find qualified or experienced pilots.
Re: 2014 payrates
TFWrudder wrote:leftoftrack wrote:
Do you think that finding DEC's is that easy? Just ask Encore/SKY/GGN. Unless current Jazz pilots line up to fill these positions the reality is that there are nowhere enough pilots in Canada to fill the spots.
Re: 2014 payrates
That's the wild card. What another poster said somewhere on here; supply and demand is only allowed to work in the companies' favour, any upward pressure on salaries will unfortunately (likely) just lead to TFWs.loopa wrote:TFWrudder wrote:leftoftrack wrote:
Do you think that finding DEC's is that easy? Just ask Encore/SKY/GGN. Unless current Jazz pilots line up to fill these positions the reality is that there are nowhere enough pilots in Canada to fill the spots.
Re: 2014 payrates
AC doesn't want to eliminate CPA providers (Jazz), they want more CPA providers (SKR and GGN). This means shifting CPA work from Jazz to others, thus shrinking Jazz. AC doesn't want to have 2010 happen again.
Are not upgrades well over 6-8 years right now at Jazz, what is the DOH of the most junior Capt right now? How many years for an upgrade going forward... it could be many many years if ever as Jazz continues to shrink.
There are many Captains at Jazz now that personally told me that they had the chance (some said they had multiple chances) to go to WestJet but didn't for the same reasons people are giving for turning down Encore. Looking back they wished they had taken the opportunity. I wonder if history is repeating it's self?
Are not upgrades well over 6-8 years right now at Jazz, what is the DOH of the most junior Capt right now? How many years for an upgrade going forward... it could be many many years if ever as Jazz continues to shrink.
There are many Captains at Jazz now that personally told me that they had the chance (some said they had multiple chances) to go to WestJet but didn't for the same reasons people are giving for turning down Encore. Looking back they wished they had taken the opportunity. I wonder if history is repeating it's self?
Re: 2014 payrates
The funny thing is... No one has the balls to post Sky, Ggn or
Encore payscales... What does that tell you?
"The exception usually hides until it becomes the norm"
-Winston Churchill
Encore payscales... What does that tell you?
"The exception usually hides until it becomes the norm"
-Winston Churchill
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Re: 2014 payrates
Well, after all the rhetoric, the conscious of a sky and Ggn pilot on this thread is too hide the info. Thanks for proving my point.
Re: 2014 payrates
The pay rates are on this forum somewhere.
I think Georgian was $70k base and anything over 75 hours was at an hourly rate.
Sky was $52k- $55k base plus around $25 an hour for all flying with a guarantee of 65 hours.
In either case you'll be making mid to high 80's.
Better than any Jazz FO in terms of money in your pocket, not as good for days off, scheduling rules or pension.
Health benefits could be another thing, Jazz is very expensive with big deductions for that and long term disability. I believe Sky and GGN have healthcare plans that are free???
Depends what you want, more and better hours in the logbook plus more cash in the bank today, or a pension and better scheduling rules and union protection. Unfortunately that's about all that Jazz has to offer, you can't argue other intangible perks like job security or opportunity for advancement because those aren't there anymore, especially for a new hire.
I'll just add this, a lot of people seem to compare the minimum pay guarantee of the enemy but then use their actual earnings to prove their point. An 8 year Jazz FO is paid about $66 an hour and guaranteed 75 hours a month, that's $59400 a year.
I think Georgian was $70k base and anything over 75 hours was at an hourly rate.
Sky was $52k- $55k base plus around $25 an hour for all flying with a guarantee of 65 hours.
In either case you'll be making mid to high 80's.
Better than any Jazz FO in terms of money in your pocket, not as good for days off, scheduling rules or pension.
Health benefits could be another thing, Jazz is very expensive with big deductions for that and long term disability. I believe Sky and GGN have healthcare plans that are free???
Depends what you want, more and better hours in the logbook plus more cash in the bank today, or a pension and better scheduling rules and union protection. Unfortunately that's about all that Jazz has to offer, you can't argue other intangible perks like job security or opportunity for advancement because those aren't there anymore, especially for a new hire.
I'll just add this, a lot of people seem to compare the minimum pay guarantee of the enemy but then use their actual earnings to prove their point. An 8 year Jazz FO is paid about $66 an hour and guaranteed 75 hours a month, that's $59400 a year.
Re: 2014 payrates
I can't recall a min month at Jazz, avg 82.5 on a fairly regular basis. I'll take the DB and security of a good LTD plan in case something happens and my family needs a roof over their heads and food in their belly. I'm not 20 yrs old and looking out for only myself .. One day those problems will be yours and we'll be better equipped to have this conversation on the same level.
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Re: 2014 payrates
Our guarantee is 80 per month, with anything over 85 hours paid at base rate x 1.5. On the DH8 I've been blocked at 82.5 for at least the past 6 months and usually end up with just shy of 90 after natural block growth due to weather and de-ice delays, etc. But if you're just simply looking at base pay for an 8 year Jazz F/O, it's $68 X 80 hrs/month X 12 months = $65,280. Add in per diems (for those who like to include that as income) and you're looking at $76,000 pre-tax. With our block hours as of late, it's almost $80,000. And if you include the Stock Purchase Plan and contribute to the max (assuming the stock doesn't crash), add another few grand to your pocket.Stinky wrote:An 8 year Jazz FO is paid about $66 an hour and guaranteed 75 hours a month, that's $59400 a year.
Just trying to set the facts straight.
Re: 2014 payrates
+benefits+pension+vacation days+best reserve rules in Canada+great work rules etc etc etcDHC-1 Jockey wrote:Our guarantee is 80 per month, with anything over 85 hours paid at base rate x 1.5. On the DH8 I've been blocked at 82.5 for at least the past 6 months and usually end up with just shy of 90 after natural block growth due to weather and de-ice delays, etc. But if you're just simply looking at base pay for an 8 year Jazz F/O, it's $68 X 80 hrs/month X 12 months = $65,280. Add in per diems (for those who like to include that as income) and you're looking at $76,000 pre-tax. With our block hours as of late, it's almost $80,000. And if you include the Stock Purchase Plan and contribute to the max (assuming the stock doesn't crash), add another few grand to your pocket.Stinky wrote:An 8 year Jazz FO is paid about $66 an hour and guaranteed 75 hours a month, that's $59400 a year.
Just trying to set the facts straight.
That all adds up so you cannot JUST look at the salary.
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Re: 2014 payrates
Granted,
But as much as I agree with all of you I do understand people leaving the company as it seems that there is nothing to look forward to in terms of career progression.
But as much as I agree with all of you I do understand people leaving the company as it seems that there is nothing to look forward to in terms of career progression.
Re: 2014 payrates
I prefer healthy, undivorced, quality rearing family progression.
Re: 2014 payrates
I prefer healthy, undivorced, quality rearing family progression.