Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Share ideas on building aircraft.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore

Post Reply
awitzke
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 511
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:06 pm
Location: Napping in Pikangikum

Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by awitzke »

Hey guys, I am starting to poke around at the prospect of buying an aircraft. Specifically an RV6. I'm new to the homebuilt world and had a question regarding self maintenance. I know that to be classified as a home build (correct me if I'm wrong?), the builder must complete 51% of the build. Doing so allows them to complete work and maintenance on the aircraft themselves. My question, if I were to buy a completed aircraft does this transfer over to me? Since it is still a home built, experimental aircraft? Or would I be relegated to only elementary maintenance?

Thanks
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by photofly »

according to COPA when you buy a homebuilt you can maintain it yourself as though you had built it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Chris M
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:41 am
Location: Toronto

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by Chris M »

In the US only the original builder can apply for a Repairman Certificate, which allows them to perform the plane's annual Condition Inspection. If the plane is sold the new owner has to use an AME for the annuals from then on. Unfortunately I'm not sure if this carries over into Canada. I like to listen to the EAA webinars as background to drown out the stupid people at work but what they have there is all US-based info.

But for regular repairs and mods if you're the owner you can do pretty much whatever you want.
---------- ADS -----------
 
awitzke
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 511
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:06 pm
Location: Napping in Pikangikum

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by awitzke »

Thanks for this info. I'll try to do a bit more research on it, just tough as most info is for the USA.

I'm ok having to do annuals with an AME, and we'll probably do them with an AME regardless if it's required or not just to be on the safe side. I'm very capable but having a professional check things out makes for peace of mind.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ahramin
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 6309
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by ahramin »

In Canada the the owner is automatically qualified to do any inspection, repair, or modification to their homebuilt aircraft, regardless of whether or not they built it. In the case of a Van's aircraft there is support from the factory for continuing airworthiness such as inspection checklists and SBs. Most AMEs are also comfortable assisting in maintenance on RVs as they are a pretty common aircraft so if you need some professional help for a specific item it shouldn't be too hard to get.

Basically anything you can do yourself, go ahead and do it. Anything you don't have the tools for, buy or borrow the tool. Anything you don't know how to do, hire someone to show you how to do it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by AirFrame »

ahramin wrote:In Canada the the owner is automatically qualified to do any inspection, repair, or modification to their homebuilt aircraft, regardless of whether or not they built it. In the case of a Van's aircraft there is support from the factory for continuing airworthiness such as inspection checklists and SBs. Most AMEs are also comfortable assisting in maintenance on RVs as they are a pretty common aircraft so if you need some professional help for a specific item it shouldn't be too hard to get.

Basically anything you can do yourself, go ahead and do it. Anything you don't have the tools for, buy or borrow the tool. Anything you don't know how to do, hire someone to show you how to do it.
This exactly.

I didn't build my RV-6 either. My hangar is at an airport with almost two dozen RV's and their owners, and I partially share space with one of them who also happens to be an AME. The best thing you can do, even if you come into this with some aircraft maintenance knowledge already, is to find a fellow owner who is knowledgeable and learn from them. Do your annuals together, oil changes together, etc. and learn it all bit by bit.
---------- ADS -----------
 
awitzke
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 511
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:06 pm
Location: Napping in Pikangikum

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by awitzke »

Thanks for all the great info. I'll see how things progress in the near future and maybe by the end of summer/fall I'll be an aircraft owner!
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
culver10
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:35 am

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by culver10 »

I completely agree with the FAA system were the builder who has spent many years and sometimes thousands of hours constructing his aircraft gets a limited A&P licence to inspect and repair his aircraft. If he sells the plane, the new owner has to take the plane to a licensed mechanic or the original builder for annual inspection. In Canada, anyone can purchase a homebuilt and maintain it. They might be very mechanically experienced, or might not know which way to tighten a screw? Light aircraft are mostly very simple machines, but if something fails or breaks, you just can't pull over and hook a rope to it and pull it back to the garage.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by AirFrame »

culver10 wrote:I completely agree with the FAA system were the builder who has spent many years and sometimes thousands of hours constructing his aircraft gets a limited A&P licence to inspect and repair his aircraft. If he sells the plane, the new owner has to take the plane to a licensed mechanic or the original builder for annual inspection. In Canada, anyone can purchase a homebuilt and maintain it. They might be very mechanically experienced, or might not know which way to tighten a screw? Light aircraft are mostly very simple machines, but if something fails or breaks, you just can't pull over and hook a rope to it and pull it back to the garage.
I'm of two minds on this personally. I agree that it seems reasonable that you couldn't adequately maintain an amateur-built aircraft if you didn't construct it yourself. But at the same time, the accident statistics don't suggest that the Canadian system is more dangerous than the US system. I suspect this means that people qualified to do their own maintenance are doing it, and those who aren't either don't get into the amateur-built market, or they are making use of mechanics or fellow owners as resources to either instruct them, or outright do the maintenance for them.
---------- ADS -----------
 
NunavutPA-12
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:31 pm
Location: YCO

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by NunavutPA-12 »

The learning curve was (is) pretty steep for me as far as maintaining my home-built is concerned. It was not built by me and, although I had some experience in maintaining an ultralight (also not built by me), I had more to learn when I got my Lycoming-powered PA-12/18 clone.

I'm a long way from any maintenance facility.

If an AME or a school were to put on a basic maintenance course of a couple of weeks for home-builders I think there would be a market for that service.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by AirFrame »

NunavutPA-12 wrote:If an AME or a school were to put on a basic maintenance course of a couple of weeks for home-builders I think there would be a market for that service.
If it were possible to teach the average person how to maintain an entire airplane in two weeks, we wouldn't need AME's.
---------- ADS -----------
 
NunavutPA-12
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:31 pm
Location: YCO

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by NunavutPA-12 »

AirFrame wrote:
NunavutPA-12 wrote:If an AME or a school were to put on a basic maintenance course of a couple of weeks for home-builders I think there would be a market for that service.
If it were possible to teach the average person how to maintain an entire airplane in two weeks, we wouldn't need AME's.
Yes, yes ..... we all know that being an AME is a cross between rocket-science and brain surgery and only very special people can fully understand the complex workings of a tube and fabric airplane. I wouldn't want to destroy that myth by becoming a "two-week AME".

Obviously, I was talking about something very basic.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ahramin
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 6309
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by ahramin »

Last year I put on a one hour class on maintaining your aircraft. It was well attended, I think everyone learned a bit. I don't think anyone subsequently went out and fired their AME.
---------- ADS -----------
 
NunavutPA-12
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:31 pm
Location: YCO

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by NunavutPA-12 »

Things I've done but would still like to learn (to do it properly):

1) How to do a proper differential compression test
2) How to check/adjust the timing
3) Changing oil and filter (or checking the sump screen)
4) Safety wiring demonstrated
5) Removing / inspecting / re-installing or replacing spark plugs (torque wrench use)
6) Trouble spots to look for under the cowling
7) Inspecting control cables
8) Borescope use (they are cheap these days)
9) Recommended special tools and their use

That sort of thing. That's all I can think of, but there's probably others.

Would take a lot more than one hour.

A lot of these things I could get an AME to do, but the nearest is 400-miles away and I have more interesting destinations!
---------- ADS -----------
 
goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by goingnowherefast »

CAR 571.11 (1)(b)
in the case of maintenance performed on an aircraft that is operated under a special certificate of airworthiness in the amateur-built classification, the person is an owner of the aircraft;

By all means, if you need help, ask for it. Amateur built owners are a tight knit group. They help each other out quite a bit.
---------- ADS -----------
 
FADEC
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:31 pm

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by FADEC »

I have seen lots of terrible work by AME's and lots of terrible work by Amateurs; also things done poorly by factories.
I have also seen "Amateur" work that was far better than factory or (most) AME's.
An "Amateur" is working for nothing; may spend more time to get a better result.
Some AME"s are excellent. Some will run up the bill for no valid reason.
An AME who shows disrespect for Pilots is to be avoided; a Pilot who ignores (good) AME's is to be avoided.
An aileron came off an airplane; it had been removed and replaced by an AME; apparently forgot the nut!
Another AME was unaware that the inlet screen in a Lycoming oil sump needs to be inspected at oil changes.
Anyone can miss something; ensure that another pair of eyes looks at critical items.
Don't "Assume".
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by AirFrame »

Chris M wrote:In the US only the original builder can apply for a Repairman Certificate, which allows them to perform the plane's annual Condition Inspection. If the plane is sold the new owner has to use an AME for the annuals from then on.
Or, they can take it back to the builder. A number of RV's owned by non-builders go back to their builder for annual sign-off.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ahramin
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 6309
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by ahramin »

Or they can get a repairman's certificate for their aircraft.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Self maint. for purchased homebuilt

Post by AirFrame »

ahramin wrote:Or they can get a repairman's certificate for their aircraft.
This is restricted to the original builder in the US. The FAA only issues one Repairman's Cert per amateur-built airframe. After that, you're either an AME or you go to one.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Homebuilders”