Replacement Nav Bulbs

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ahramin
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Replacement Nav Bulbs

#1 Post by ahramin » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:01 pm

I'm staring at a Grimes 1512 21W 13V 419 bulb that is so corroded it shorted out the nav light circuit. Spruce has replacement bulbs for $20. Anyone have a better idea? Any opinions on LED bulbs?
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#2 Post by AirFrame » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:19 pm

ahramin wrote:I'm staring at a Grimes 1512 21W 13V 419 bulb that is so corroded it shorted out the nav light circuit. Spruce has replacement bulbs for $20. Anyone have a better idea? Any opinions on LED bulbs?
I replaced mine with off-the-shelf LED replacement bulbs. One of the Grimes bulbs has an asymmetric pin on it, to use the off-the-shelf bulb I had to file off the pin. No problems in 200 hours, and i've had many comments how visible the bulbs are in the air in daylight.

I'm thinking about trying some of the NavStrobe bulbs from here: http://www.navstrobelighting.com/
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#3 Post by Big Pistons Forever » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:01 pm

Is there such a thing as a certified LED replacement nav light bulb ?
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#4 Post by AirFrame » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:04 pm

Big Pistons Forever wrote:Is there such a thing as a certified LED replacement nav light bulb ?
No. Landing light bulbs, yes, but no Nav lights. AeroLED's and NavStrobe both claim to be pursuing certification of their LED Nav Lights but nothing has been forthcoming.
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Last edited by AirFrame on Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#5 Post by ahramin » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:07 pm

Lots of certified options, but I'm not looking for certified.
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#6 Post by CpnCrunch » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:49 am

Navstrobe have certified and uncertified bulbs, but we didn't have much luck with the certified ones. No matter what we did (on/off/on quickly, on/off/on slowly, on/off/on/off/whatever) we could NEVER get all 3 lights to reliably strobe, either with engine on or off. Even after sending them back and getting replacements, they still didn't work reliably. I wasn't terribly impressed - how difficult is it to detect an on/off/on pulse within 3 seconds? Not very difficult! I'm pretty sure the electrics in the 150 aren't that bad.
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#7 Post by AirFrame » Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:54 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:Navstrobe have certified and uncertified bulbs...
Came across this and thought i'd update... Navstrobe still only has uncertified bulbs. Some are marked "certification pending" or "designed to meet the requirements of..." but none are certified, none are FAA approved.
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#8 Post by Taiser » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:16 am

I put on the AeroLED's on my homebuilt and LED's are the way to go. Once these get certified (a ridiculous process for these, since they are immune to vibration, last 10,000 hrs and don't need a 3 lb power supply for the strobes... what's the hold up??? :? )

They even run off of 22 gauge wires! I'll never use a regular bulb again!!!

Here's a short video after my install taken with a crappy point and shoot camera. The video does NOT do justice to how bright these things are! I love 'em!! :prayer:

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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#9 Post by ahramin » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:14 pm

In the end I bought a couple of these and filed off one stud so that they'd fit. Works great.

http://www.dhgate.com/product/ba15s-114 ... 95743.html
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#10 Post by CpnCrunch » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:30 pm

AirFrame wrote:
CpnCrunch wrote:Navstrobe have certified and uncertified bulbs...
Came across this and thought i'd update... Navstrobe still only has uncertified bulbs. Some are marked "certification pending" or "designed to meet the requirements of..." but none are certified, none are FAA approved.
Nope. They have tsod and non tsod. See q and a on aircraftspruce. They are legal for certified aircraft.
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#11 Post by AirFrame » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:00 am

CpnCrunch wrote:Nope. They have tsod and non tsod. See q and a on aircraftspruce. They are legal for certified aircraft.
I looked at the specs and Q+A page for 4 or 5 of them and they all say essentially the same thing: "These lights meet the requirements of..." and "Not FAA Approved. STC Pending" and "No FAA Paperwork is available." For example:
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/el ... key=110392

No mention of having TSO or Non-TSO choices. Where did you see that?
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#12 Post by CpnCrunch » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:14 pm

http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/el ... kkey=48553

"These bulbs are standard parts and have been designed to meet the requirements of TSO-C30c."

"Are these lamps FAA-PMA approved or are they just for experimental use as your other bulbs state?
This bulb is approved as a replacement bulb for tail lights only with the added strobe safety feature to be used at the pilot's discretion. They are not approved as a replacement for an anti-collision system. They do not have FAA-PMA approval but as replacement bulbs only they are not required to."
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#13 Post by AirFrame » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:56 am

CpnCrunch wrote:"These bulbs are standard parts and have been designed to meet the requirements of TSO-C30c."
"designed to meet" does not mean they are TSO certified. My Amateur-Built RV is designed to meet or exceed FAR Part 23 requirements, but that does not make it a certified aircraft.
"...They do not have FAA-PMA approval but as replacement bulbs only they are not required to."
So, not approved, and only by the manufacturer's word are they not required to. What do the regs say about using not approved parts in certified aircraft?

I'm chasing what's probably a moot point... In reality, there's nothing to stop anyone from changing the bulbs in their aircraft to anything they want, and I doubt that these bulbs will do anything but *improve* safety for someone who has them. But just because technology is running ahead of the certification process, doesn't mean it's strictly legal.

I like the concept of these bulbs, but the first set I saw installed on a friend's plane (a Cherokee, no less) had issues... They would occasionally start up not in sync (one out of the three would be solid, the other two flashing, or vice-versa) and toggling the state would reverse the situation. Turning the power off, waiting a few seconds, and powering up again may or may not fix it. From the cockpit, in the daytime, it's almost impossible to figure out what state you're in. Hopefully the later generations solved this issue. It would be a great way to add "strobes" alongside nav lights.
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Re: Replacement Nav Bulbs

#14 Post by CpnCrunch » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:37 pm

AirFrame wrote:
"...They do not have FAA-PMA approval but as replacement bulbs only they are not required to."
So, not approved, and only by the manufacturer's word are they not required to. What do the regs say about using not approved parts in certified aircraft?
Yes, I think you're probably right.
I like the concept of these bulbs, but the first set I saw installed on a friend's plane (a Cherokee, no less) had issues... They would occasionally start up not in sync (one out of the three would be solid, the other two flashing, or vice-versa) and toggling the state would reverse the situation. Turning the power off, waiting a few seconds, and powering up again may or may not fix it. From the cockpit, in the daytime, it's almost impossible to figure out what state you're in. Hopefully the later generations solved this issue. It would be a great way to add "strobes" alongside nav lights.
Yes, we had precisely the same issue on a C150. To be honest I don't really understand how they managed to make it so unreliable...it should be trivial to design something like this.
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