Pitts S2 Wanted

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Rhys Perraton
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Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by Rhys Perraton »

S2B or possibly C wanted.
rhysp@sportair.ca
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Tried barnstormers?

There are only a handful of S2B/S2C in Canada,
so I think you're looking at doing an import.

Image

There is precisely one S-2C already registered
in Canada. It's the very first one built, actually.

Just peeked at trade-a-plane. No S-2B for sale,
though there are a couple of S-2C. Bring $200k,
before import.

FAA Aircraft Registry shows 198 Pitts S-2B. If I
were you, I would contact each owner.
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Blue Side Down
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by Blue Side Down »

NER is for sale- check barnstormers or your local SW Ontario flying club community board.
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by ettw »

Rhys Perraton wrote:S2B or possibly C wanted.
rhysp@sportair.ca
You going to rotate to YRB in a Pitts?
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Post by Beefitarian »

Thought I better alert everyone about this.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Sin ... 78952.html
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cgzro
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by cgzro »

Add 45k for 35 year old fabric also 600hrs on 1978 engine likely means new camshaft and lifters, so add another 30k. The prop is good however.
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by cgzro »

FAA Aircraft Registry shows 198 Pitts S-2B. If I
were you, I would contact each owner.
Thats what I did, sent letters to the 30 or so S1T owners. One guy wrote back that the plane was not for sale but he'd happily part with the wife cheap ..:)
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Post by Beefitarian »

I was worried that might be the case. $45000 for fabric?
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by Colonel Sanders »

$45000 for fabric?
No one wants to do it any more. It is not
difficult, but the chemicals are nasty, and it's
time consuming.

As the decades go by, fewer and fewer people
do it, so fewer and fewer people know how to
do it.

This is why you don't see any more cheap fabric
aircraft (cubs, champs, t-craft) at airports any
more. The recover costs more than the airplane
will be worth afterwards. That's not good business.
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by cgzro »

Factory quoted me 30k not including any required internal work. Normally after 20 years you want to replace all the hinge points, rod ends, drag anti drag, fix broken ribs, gussets , revarnish etc...

i elected to redo my fabric a bit at a time. Lower wings one year, top next , tail fuse last, then metal paint. Took 5 winters but was done properly by Corporate Aircraft Restorations in Oshawa. Highly recommend these folks for high quality biplane fabric work.
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Factory quoted me 30k
That sounds good, except that you're without
the aircraft for a year while they do it.

It's nice when they're done, though.
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Post by Beefitarian »

Someone mentioned here before, "If you get good at doing fabric, you will allways be busy."

It's funny how my inexperience with the type makes it seem better than it probably is. Low time, nice paint.

There's 3 other S2s on trade a plane right now also.
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by cgzro »

That sounds good, except that you're without
the aircraft for a year while they do it.
Yes, thats why I did it a bit at a time. Took bottom wings off myself in November, drove them to Oshawa myself, then had plane in my hanger to work on until lower wings were ready in march, drove down, picked them up, back on (with help from my friends- tanks Btw cs), annual complete 2 weeks later. Same thing the following 3 winters. Color mismatch was dealt with by buying all paint up front but for a few years she had two shades of red.
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by cgzro »

It's funny how my inexperience with the type makes it seem better than it probably is. Low time, nice paint.
Probably true of all aircraft but acro planes are worse, they wear out inside out, so they can look stunning because they are hangared and polished but need costly repairs to be safe.

Anyway for a fabric plane I'd pick new fabric and old engine over new engine and old fabric any day of the week. Heck you can pull an engine, get it overhauled and rehang it in a month and a half and lots of reputable paces can do it properly.
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Post by Beefitarian »

It seems like it would be good to buy cheap ones, then refurbish them but in this economy you would end up with $130000 in to an older plane and no one would be able to afford to buy it.
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by Colonel Sanders »

buy cheap ones, then refurbish them
Sinking large $$$ into airplanes is almost always
financial suicide, unless you plan to fly it for a
substantial number of hours, and are willing to
pay the dollars per hour for the upgrade.

Let's say you sink $40k into new fabric. You
will probably find, to your annoyance, that the
aircraft has only gone up $20k in value. If you
fly the aircraft say 200 hrs before you sell it,
for the new fabric you will pay

($40k - $20k) / 200 = $100/hr

just for new fabric. Ouch.

And, you spend $30k on an overhauled engine,
which only increases the value of the airplane
$15k, at most. You fly 200 hrs before you sell
it, just the cost of the engine overhaul is

($30k - $15k) / 200 = $75/hr

So your cost of new fabric and overhauled engine
is going to be $175/hr in addition to all the other
costs of aircraft ownership.

Above assumes zero percent interest, of course.

Another important consideration is that the aircraft
is down for a considerable length of time while the
work is being done, so you don't get to use it.

This is not something that is well understood. For
example, I know people who's annual inspections
routinely take 5 or 6 months. Hmm.

Buying a project aircraft is fraught with hazards.
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Post by Beefitarian »

Same thing with fixing cars, everyone wants a bargain. Briefly the muscle car market was up but that's over now.
$20000/200 = $100 per hour.
Word it like that and I'm saving 50 per hour. :P

I was going to learn to do the fabric myself so that might reduce the cost but I suspect the paint is more than half. By the time you set up a paint booth you will lose money there until you have painted enough planes...

I could do engines myself but I don't have the paper work to make it legal. Pilots know you don't have enough of a demand so they will low ball you fiercely. "New engine huh? How about $500?"
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Re: Pitts S2 Wanted

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I was going to learn to do the fabric myself
I think that's a superb idea. When you are at
OSH, do a fabric workshop.

What you need at home is a heated shed,
separate from the house, which is big enough
for a single fuselage.

Fabric is not hard. It's just time-consuming and
nobody like the chemicals. But you could probably
take apart an old airframe, sandblast it, brush
epoxy paint on it, and put fabric and primer and
silver on it. Sure, you could have a pro spray
the glossy topcoat (nobody likes butrate any more)
but even still, that's an awful lot of value add.

Same thing for the wings and tail feathers.

You could rescue a lot of old tube & fabric
airplane that would otherwise be destined
for the scrap heap. You wouldn't earn a whole
lot of money, but I can tell you, anyone that
can do fabric has plenty of people knocking
on their door.
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