Is my career over?

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dreamer10
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Is my career over?

#1 Post by dreamer10 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:35 pm

Hello,

3 months ago I was terminated from my flying job for several reasons. I had worked on the ramp for this company for 6 months and by the time I was promoted to flightline I had not flown for almost 9 months, and had not flown IFR for 2 years.
I was trained in a rush and not by a pilot who was current and qualified on type. I flew for 2 weeks and then my IFR lapsed. The company then sent me back and forth up north giving me one training flight and then I did the PPC the following morning after arriving from the north 9 hours earlier. I evidently failed the ride and was sent to a flying school to redo my IFR. There I had to relearn the piston and did pass the ride the first time there. I returned and began learning the turbine aircraft I was flying over again as well as the operations.

I had perhaps 320hrs TT and 70 on type. I flew with a disgruntled captain who was very angry with the company and was planning on leaving. He did nothing to help me or teach me as I was trying to get a hang of things once again. After a 13hr duty day, 9hrs in the air it was my approach which was the first time down to minimums. The captain critized the entire approach and i did make it in and land. 3 weeks later i was called into the office and terminated on the fact that my IFR took too long to renew (there were only 2 instructors at the school), and my IFR skills were not sound. Since then I have not been able to find a job and feel maybe Im finished. I have called, emailed resumes all over the country. Some companies ask why I was there for only 4 months as a pilot (of which I only flew 100hrs). I have been honest with them and explained the situation.

I dont feel it was right for a company to put me on the ramp and then after that time expect me without proper training and support to be comftable flying a turboprop with less than 400hours of experience and 100 hours on type. I also dont feel I was given a fair chance.

Any suggestions would be gratefully accepted.
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willing to fly
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Re: Is my career over?

#2 Post by willing to fly » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:54 pm

Your career is only over when you say it is.

The next step IMHO is to solidify your IFR skills. I too have trained with less than a ton of instruction and have also passed an IFR ride without feeling 100% comfortable in what I was doing. My first PCC on a King Air was a similar story. I was too worried about doing the IFR correctly to devote all of my effort to learning the aircraft. My learning of the aircraft was hampered by having to think too hard about the IFR. I think it's a vicious cycle and really you need to eliminate one of the variables. I think if you can go into a company and tell them honestly what happened but more important, what you did to correct the situation they may understand.

I'm hearing anecdotal stories of things slowing down out there. I too am looking for work and not hearing back from many people. It's also not a big hiring season right now as a lot of companies seem to hire in the spring time. This isn't September 12, 2001. It might be slow but some companies are still expanding.

Take some steps to improve your skills and keep pounding on doors. Eventually you'll find a good place to be.

Good luck with the job hunt!
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Re: Is my career over?

#3 Post by dreamer10 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:12 pm

Thanks willing to fly, all the best in your job search
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synthpro
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Re: Is my career over?

#4 Post by synthpro » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:50 pm

Hey dude

I think what you need to do... is learn how to lie a little. There is nothing noble about telling these companies the truth. I'm sure you can come up with something much more creative than what I just read.

The thing is... is these companies have like... piles and piles of resumes... the first second they hear some guy saying they failed their ride twice... (but it wasn't my fault...!)... they could give two shits about the story. They'll proceed to the next applicant. For them... all's you are is a possibility of trouble and annoyance.

So if I were you, I would tell them something... more to the tune of.... "There were too many guys in front of me... and I was getting impatient"... or... "the hours they promised me was no where close to what I was flying. I was only doing 10 hours a month with them". Say something. They don't need to know the exact truth.. ya know what I'm sayin'???

Anyways... there are lots of people who know me personally on this forum.. and just for the record... I'm not talking from experience... It just makes logical sense to me.

Oh end by the way... the hiring is definitely getting frozen out their. Cargjet just laid off, AC arent hiring for a while nor is Jazz.

Later dude!

S.
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Re: Is my career over?

#5 Post by square » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:59 pm

If you don't want to fly IFR.. get a VFR job. Lots out there. Though with 320 hours you'll have to ramp again.
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willing to fly
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Re: Is my career over?

#6 Post by willing to fly » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:05 pm

I wouldn't suggest that you flat out lie. A potential employer may still contact previous employers to follow up. I would perhaps try to polish your story a little. I would also avoid the poor me - it wasn't my fault approach. Again, I would suggest that if they ask, you tell them what you have done to improve the situation ie I went out and did a bunch of simulator training, took an aero course, ... to me, this shows that you recognize the situation and that you also knew what could be done to correct the problem.
At your stage of the game, an interview probably won't be about what you have done in the past so much as it is you trying to sell the company on what you can do for them.

Just my two cents.
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Re: Is my career over?

#7 Post by Cleared to FL370 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:50 pm

Dreamer 10:

No I don't think your career is finished, it's just the beginning with just a little bump in the road starting out.

A couple of things...

Sounds like your IFR is a little rusty, and no that's not an accusation just the facts of you having not flown IFR in some time. It's up to you to "brush the rust off" get yourself current so you feel like you can comfortably handle flying IFR approaches again.

The training your received sounds much like the training I received when I worked up north as a bush pilot. It was always last minute, always seemed to be rushed and the guy doing the training was at the end of a duty day and wanted to go home. Not everyone or every company is like that but I can certainly relate to your experience.

I remember also training guys up north after working a very busy week, and it was a challenge to provide meaningful instruction at times.

Lying about your experience to other perspective employers is a mistake and so is going out right and blaming them as well. People make mistakes and yes people get fired from there jobs as well. Instead of blaming somebody I would tell an employer "if asked" what I've learned from the experience. Worked for me.. I would also add lying at an interview is grounds for dismissal, myself I wouldn't want that hanging over my head. Not everyone agrees with that of course but that's my two cents.
Best of luck, it'll work out as long as you don't give up.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: Is my career over?

#8 Post by Chuck Ellsworth » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:55 pm

Dreamer10:

No your career is not over.

Anyone can fail a ride or for that matter lose a job.

There are many things that make for a good pilot and employee besides the ability to fly an airplane, especially someone with low time and not current.

If you lie about something like this you will be giving up one of the most important traits anyone can have, your integrity.

I would hire someone who has failed at anything because failure is part of learning.

However I would never hire a liar.

And I have hired hundreds of pilots over the decades.
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The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.

After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.

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Re: Is my career over?

#9 Post by Boeing boy » Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:35 pm

Dreamer 10:

All I can say is don't give up. Just improve on your flying skills and you can try to move up north for a while as there is opportunities up there (VFR). I heard that there are companies hirign bush pilots and those that transport hunters and fishermen to remote areas.

If I was in your situation, that would be what I would do. Gain experience with that for a year or two, then talk to the regionals and move your way up.

Good luck
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Re: Is my career over?

#10 Post by just curious » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:29 am

You were compensated for 9 months as a ramp rat. Apparently you were never paid as a pilot for your company. List your job in this manner:
  • Ramp Rat, Global AirLines, Dinosoar Groin Sk Dec 7, 2007-Sep '08
Now, take a deep breath, plan an approach to studying that will help you grow your IFR and aircraft systems skills, and move on.

Most employers during an interview want to impart information as much as receive it. Where you will be based, what you will do, when you will start training. When you are in there during the "All about me" phase, tell them truthfully you have been studying hard for greater insight into IFR skills, a/c systems, and hope to be able to put them into play.

If you want to re-plan your references, list the ramp supervisor you got along best with and get his cell number (assuming this wasn't Pickle Lake) and list that. Busy HR types go with what works. See a contact- phone a contact.

Now get studying
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Re: Is my career over?

#11 Post by crazy_aviator » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:59 am

Dreamer, i would suggest to NOT listen to synthpro, it is the most foolish advice that you can be given , listen to someone like Chuck , ANYONE but a liar !!!!
Be Blessed :D
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Re: Is my career over?

#12 Post by lowaltituderecord » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:06 am

get a good personal computer sim and fly IFR with it till you can do it in your sleep, that'll go a long way towards keeping your scan sharp and knowing procedure off by heart
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